Wisconsin Fly Fishing Forums

Whiskers Yellowbanks WFFP Administrator Offline A Poor, Dumb, Pass Lake Slob Posts: 10191 Merle, WI	Western Drought Jul 25^th, 2021 at 7:48pm https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/23/science/drought-montana-fly-fishing.html
Back to top	« Last Edit: Jul 26^th, 2021 at 8:34am by Whiskers Yellowbanks » “The world, we are told, was made especially for man—a presumption not supported by all the facts...” -John Muir IP Logged

darklake Damsel Fly Offline Posts: 446	Re: Western Drought Reply #1 - Jul 25^th, 2021 at 11:18pm Good grief. What a bizarrely written article!
Back to top	IP Logged

Whiskers Yellowbanks WFFP Administrator Offline A Poor, Dumb, Pass Lake Slob Posts: 10191 Merle, WI	Re: Western Drought Reply #2 - Jul 26^th, 2021 at 8:36am darklake wrote on Jul 25^th, 2021 at 11:18pm: Good grief. What a bizarrely written article! I think it was a translation of a translation. I replaced it with the original article Hopefully it isn't locked behind a paywall.
Back to top	“The world, we are told, was made especially for man—a presumption not supported by all the facts...” -John Muir IP Logged

JGF

Dragon Fly

Offline

I Love Scaly Rough Fish!

Posts: 1989

Re: Western Drought
Reply #3 - Jul 26^th, 2021 at 9:21am

It looked like part of the West got some rain this week - mostly further south but it might help Colorado, AZ, and NM.

I picked up 3 different books to try to understand western water issues. One thing I found pretty interesting is that the time frame they used to determine how much water was in the Colorado River was - based on tree ring data - the wettest period in the last 4-500 years. So they're allocating too much water - particularly in years like this one.

Back to top

IP Logged

GerardH

WFFP Moderator

Offline

I am haunted by dead fly
anglers

Posts: 7978
The Land of YaBB

Re: Western Drought
Reply #4 - Jul 26^th, 2021 at 4:38pm

JGF wrote on Jul 26^th, 2021 at 9:21am:

It looked like part of the West got some rain this week - mostly further south but it might help Colorado, AZ, and NM.

I picked up 3 different books to try to understand western water issues. One thing I found pretty interesting is that the time frame they used to determine how much water was in the Colorado River was - based on tree ring data - the wettest period in the last 4-500 years. So they're allocating too much water - particularly in years like this one.

I've read the same thing...the Colorado River flows were at historic highs at the time they determined allocation. True water conservation doesn't seem to be a thing out there.

Of course, every couple years there seems to be a hard pitch to extract water from from the upper Great Lakes states....as if we never experience drought.

Back to top

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )

IP Logged

Further North

Dragon Fly

Offline

Posts: 9174
NW WI
Gender: male

Re: Western Drought
Reply #5 - Jul 26^th, 2021 at 9:49pm

Whiskers Yellowbanks wrote on Jul 26^th, 2021 at 8:36am:

darklake wrote on Jul 25^th, 2021 at 11:18pm:

Good grief. What a bizarrely written article!

I think it was a translation of a translation. I replaced it with the original article Hopefully it isn't locked behind a paywall.

It is paywalled. This'll work: http://archive.today/5d1hO

Back to top

..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((°<

Bass inhale. Trout Sip. The musky bites.
-Tom Hazelton

IP Logged

tannin Dragon Fly Offline On Wisconsin! Posts: 1199	Re: Western Drought Reply #6 - Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:12am One solution - No more free grazing on BLM land, and a tax on all cattle raised out west. Raise cattle east of the Mississippi where the water is.
Back to top	IP Logged

JohnS

Caddis Fly

Offline

Fish on!

Posts: 73

Re: Western Drought
Reply #7 - Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:58am

When I was out West in June staying on the Ranch along the Henry's Fork, one early morning I walked their special trail that is intermixed with large signs talking about the history and habitat of the ranch. One sign was discussing the importance of sagebrush and how it helps the environment by collecting the snow during the Winter months. The snow then slowly melts in the Spring giving back valuable moisture to the ground and keeping the area cooler longer.

When the ranchers removed all the sagebrush the Winter snows no longer collect in the fields. Causing the farmland to heat up sooner and dry out faster in the Spring.

Later, while I was cutting through some dense sagebrush to get to a special spot on the river I no longer cussed at the sagebrush.

John

Back to top

IP Logged

Jizzy Pearl

Dragon Fly

Offline

I need some fuel to run.

Posts: 1590
Gender: male

Re: Western Drought
Reply #8 - Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 2:08pm

tannin wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:12am:

One solution - No more free grazing on BLM land, and a tax on all cattle raised out west. Raise cattle east of the Mississippi where the water is.

Irrigation doesn't help either.

Thankfully where I am headed to in Colorado in 2-1/2 weeks has been receiving weekly rains. Everything looks great.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 2:09pm by Jizzy Pearl »

I LOVE COWS! THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!

IP Logged

GerardH

WFFP Moderator

Offline

I am haunted by dead fly
anglers

Posts: 7978
The Land of YaBB

Re: Western Drought
Reply #9 - Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 2:56pm

tannin wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:12am:

One solution - No more free grazing on BLM land, and a tax on all cattle raised out west. Raise cattle east of the Mississippi where the water is.

I'm in complete agreement...but you know that would fire up another sagebrush rebellion and Bundy-clones would be coming out of the woodwork armed to the teeth.

Back to top

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )

IP Logged

tannin

Dragon Fly

Offline

On Wisconsin!

Posts: 1199

Re: Western Drought
Reply #10 - Aug 4^th, 2021 at 10:20am

GerardH wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 2:56pm:

tannin wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:12am:

One solution - No more free grazing on BLM land, and a tax on all cattle raised out west. Raise cattle east of the Mississippi where the water is.

I'm in complete agreement...but you know that would fire up another sagebrush rebellion and Bundy-clones would be coming out of the woodwork armed to the teeth.

Yup. They would go crazy(er)

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 4^th, 2021 at 9:21pm by tannin »

IP Logged

tannin

Dragon Fly

Offline

On Wisconsin!

Posts: 1199

Re: Western Drought
Reply #11 - Aug 4^th, 2021 at 10:20am

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 2:08pm:

tannin wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:12am:

One solution - No more free grazing on BLM land, and a tax on all cattle raised out west. Raise cattle east of the Mississippi where the water is.

Irrigation doesn't help either.

Thankfully where I am headed to in Colorado in 2-1/2 weeks has been receiving weekly rains. Everything looks great.

It sure doesn't, and much of the irrigation is to raise hay for cattle.

Back to top

IP Logged

Further North

Dragon Fly

Offline

Posts: 9174
NW WI
Gender: male

Re: Western Drought
Reply #12 - Aug 4^th, 2021 at 11:07am

tannin wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:12am:

One solution - No more free grazing on BLM land, and a tax on all cattle raised out west. Raise cattle east of the Mississippi where the water is.

I'm trying to understand how a tax - that would get passed along to consumers - would help?

I like the idea of raising cattle in the east (sort of, because I'm concerned it'd lead to more CAFOs) and can back cutting off grazing on BLM land...but the idea of a tax isn't effective.

Direct action works better than indirect, IMO.

Back to top

..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((°<

Bass inhale. Trout Sip. The musky bites.
-Tom Hazelton

IP Logged

Further North

Dragon Fly

Offline

Posts: 9174
NW WI
Gender: male

Re: Western Drought
Reply #13 - Aug 4^th, 2021 at 11:09am

tannin wrote on Aug 4^th, 2021 at 10:20am:

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 2:08pm:

tannin wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:12am:

One solution - No more free grazing on BLM land, and a tax on all cattle raised out west. Raise cattle east of the Mississippi where the water is.

Irrigation doesn't help either.

Thankfully where I am headed to in Colorado in 2-1/2 weeks has been receiving weekly rains. Everything looks great.

It sure doesn't, and much of the irrigation is to raise hay for cattle.

Around here it's to grow corn and other crops we don't need.

We have a particularly egregious offender just down the road from here. I've seen their systems running in the rain...

Back to top

..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((°<

Bass inhale. Trout Sip. The musky bites.
-Tom Hazelton

IP Logged

tannin

Dragon Fly

Offline

On Wisconsin!

Posts: 1199

Re: Western Drought
Reply #14 - Aug 4^th, 2021 at 9:23pm

Further North wrote on Aug 4^th, 2021 at 11:07am:

tannin wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2021 at 11:12am:

One solution - No more free grazing on BLM land, and a tax on all cattle raised out west. Raise cattle east of the Mississippi where the water is.

I'm trying to understand how a tax - that would get passed along to consumers - would help?

I like the idea of raising cattle in the east (sort of, because I'm concerned it'd lead to more CAFOs) and can back cutting off grazing on BLM land...but the idea of a tax isn't effective.

Direct action works better than indirect, IMO.

Although taxes are primarily for raising funds, they are also commonly used as disincentives. If the cattlemen in the west had a tax that made it harder for them to compete with the cattlemen in the east, there would be a disincentive to raise cattle, and thus pump out rivers to raise hay in the western states.

Back to top

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register