http://www.cnn.com/2019/10/31/us/keystone-pipeline-leak-trnd/index.html

9000 barrels only.

It lasted a whole 9 years before it leaked.  Wow.

Further North wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2019 at 8:05pm:


I'm sure they considered the cost they'd have to pay in the event (or eventuality) of a leak when they decided to build it.  The cost that they pay, or the taxpayers pay, or that anyone pays, won't make it as though the spill never happened.  There are some things you can't put a dollar value on.

Further North wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2019 at 12:59pm:


Yes, we do.

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Nov 4^th, 2019 at 9:02am:


Those aren't much of an alternate -- oil hauled by rail has been known to derail and spill as well as tanker trucks getting into crashes.  The difference is that it's a contained volume versus the pipeline continuing to leak until it's detected and shut off.

The reality is that we have to reduce our reliance on petroleum...which is being set back by the current administration.

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Nov 4^th, 2019 at 9:17am:


So what's your point?  That's pretty much what I had already said -- reliance on pipelines will continue.

Quote:


Quote:


Let's be realistic here -- world demand slumped and a glut developed as more renewable energy sources came online in recent years.  The oil industry fights renewable energy tooth and nail because they see the handwriting on the wall.

Anyone can cherry-pick their "facts" off the web...

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Nov 4^th, 2019 at 9:54am:


I'll agree to that point -- that will be the case for years to come.  But their share on the world market is slipping by a couple percentage points -- which is huge when they expect to be expanding, particularly as China and India continue to develop their middle class.  It's also difficult for the petroleum to increase pricing barring a political or natural disaster with overproduction and reduced demand.  It's predicted there will be a 10% reduction on the reliance of petroleum over the next decade and if we weren't backtracking on the previous administration's efficiency mandates, it probably would be accelerate a bit.  Witness what's happening with coal as we move towards natural gas and wind/solar for electrical.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-energy-technology-demand/cheaper-renewables-t...

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Nov 4^th, 2019 at 10:36am:


The energy required to manufacture an electric vehicle is about 15% more (Nissan Leaf) than an internal combustion vehicle -- the difference is in the lithium battery, but it will still realize a 51% lifetime emissions savings.  A Tesla is much higher (64% more emissions than a gasoline version) but it will have a 53% lifetime emissions savings.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-global-warming-emiss
ions-953

You're correct about the oil used for the petrochemical industry, but that's a small percentage overall.  74% of US petroleum in 2018 was used for fuel in one form or another (gasoline, diesel, heating oil, etc.).

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=41&t=6

I live on a hobby farm and probably have a bigger carbon footprint than most of you. It makes personal economic sense to tweak our energy consumption.

Yes, I have the 4wd 8 cyl pickup to haul stuff.  I drive that under 1000 miles a year. I traded in the old 28 mpg Buick this year for a new 34 mpg Chevy, and that's what I use when I am not carrying lumber or sheetrock or hay bales. I'm a little too far out to be comfortable with an all-electric vehicle yet (concerned about the range between charges) but last spring I had a ride in an all-electric small car that the owner said got the equivalent of 120 mpg. The car was quick off the line, quiet, and oil changes and certain other maintenance is eliminated. Very nice little car. Now the electric company has installed two free charging stations near the grocery store for people who drive their electrics into town.

Some of the city buses in Minneapolis are all electric, and the commuter trains are electric. Electrics are not all toy sized anymore.

I know a little bit about saw mills; I helped my dad and uncle saw lumber when I was a kid. I've bought rough sawn oak boards from a dairy farmer who has branched out into sawmilling.  His homemade mill is powered by a 70hp electric motor. I've seen it in operation and it is a wonder. Maybe the farmer isn't a genius, but maybe he is.

We're thinking of going solar for electric. Eight years ago we had an estimate for equipment that would generate all our electricity, but I didn't buy because at the time it had a 15 year payback period. The payback is getting shorter. They are now talking no electric bills for the 25 year life of the system, with a five to seven year payback on investment. I gotta look closer at that.

Oil will be around for a long time for some things, but it makes sense to limit our consumption for the sake of the environment and the sake of the wallet.

tannin wrote on Nov 4^th, 2019 at 12:32pm:


I'm a glass half full kinda guy...I don't think we are accelerating towards doom anytime soon.

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Nov 5^th, 2019 at 8:38am:


Please.

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Nov 6^th, 2019 at 8:32am:


There was never any "the rest of us"...just you, Jizzy_P. 

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Nov 7^th, 2019 at 7:36am:


There are others, but, apart from the ones being paid by the oil companies, the numbers are shrinking fast.  It's becoming really hard for people to hold their hands over their ears, close their eyes, and hum loud enough to ignore it.

We drive 4 cyl., turbo SUVs that get high 20s, low 30s MPG...but can still tow the boat.  And get' 'er done in snow and bad road conditions (think two tracks, grouse hunting)

We put in geothermal heating/cooling for our home.

We re-roofed with steel, to better insulate.

We have a small, efficient, sedan for daily driving.

We bought a 4 stroke outboard to fish lakes with...doesn't use $150 in gas for a full season.

None of that is "virtue signaling"; there's certainly a long term benefit to us, but every decision we make, we think about our impact and try to reduce it...without impacting our "quality of life".  It's pretty easy...

It was exactly what I expected. 

...but it'd be PITA to park anywhere.