Wisconsin Fly Fishing Forums - WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS

WHITE ADMIRAL

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WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Apr 22^nd, 2018 at 10:04am

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-11/uow-fp111714.php

"In their search, UW researchers tested six different endophytes from cottonwood and willow varieties" quote from article.

I made this a separate topic because it definitely sheds a new light on why Mother Nature put cottonwoods and willows along our streams, rivers, lakes and wetlands.

A little knowledge everyone doing stream restoration needs to know.

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« Last Edit: Apr 22^nd, 2018 at 10:41am by WHITE ADMIRAL »

No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot. -- Mark Twain
It's fundamental we begin to study mismanaged rivers and streams, because that's what we have.
Mother Nature always amazes me, but why is man such an idiot.-Slimy Sculpin-
LIFE IS A ONE TIME GIFT.
A GOOD DEED IS ALWAYS REWARDED.
We do not have to do great things, only small things with great love.-- Mother Teresa--
God Only Loves Fishermen. (GOLF)
If "pro" is the opposite of "con" what is the opposite of "progress"? Paul Harvey

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Sasquatch WFFP Moderator Offline Former , former, former, former member. Posts: 3037 I'm right behind you. Gender:	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #1 - Apr 23^rd, 2018 at 11:48am The solution to pollution is dilution.
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Chironomid

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #2 - Apr 23^rd, 2018 at 10:26pm

WHITE ADMIRAL wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2018 at 10:04am:

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-11/uow-fp111714.php

"In their search, UW researchers tested six different endophytes from cottonwood and willow varieties" quote from article.

I made this a separate topic because it definitely sheds a new light on why Mother Nature put cottonwoods and willows along our streams, rivers, lakes and wetlands.

A little knowledge everyone doing stream restoration needs to know.

"Mother Nature" is not the only entity to put willows along streams and rivers. Homo sapiens placed willows along waterways in northern WI. back in the Depression Era days of the 1930s (A.D.) with the good intentions of shading streams and producing better thermal regimes. Trouble was, those willows were not native to the region. The results were that the willows grew fast and then toppled over into the waterways, slowing stream flows, clogging the stream systems and causing thermal regimes in said streams to rise. Now, DNR fishery crews are removing the fallen willows from streams to restore normal stream flows and to wash out accumulated silt and detritus. Since it is not kosher to name streams on this site, some streams where this restoration activity - funded by conservation funds (Inland Trout Stamp revenues, TU donations, etc.) - is occurring are in Oconto County north of Suring and in Lincoln County northeast of Merrill.

"The best laid plans of mice and men gang aft aglay." - Robert Burns

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« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2018 at 9:20am by Chironomid »

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NativeBrookie Damsel Fly Offline Posts: 340 Northern WI Gender:	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #3 - Apr 23^rd, 2018 at 11:57pm Most things unnatural and alien to an ecosystem harm said ecosystem, despite what the intentions are. Which is why I dislike Brown Trout with such fervor.
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WHITE ADMIRAL

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #4 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20am

"Which is why I dislike Brown Trout with such fervor."

You must only fish brook trout in the tributaries of the Great Lakes in Minnesota and Wisconsin because brook trout are not native to the Mississippi River watershed in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Wink

How do like the salmon and rainbow trout in the Great Lakes?? Roll Eyes

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No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot. -- Mark Twain
It's fundamental we begin to study mismanaged rivers and streams, because that's what we have.
Mother Nature always amazes me, but why is man such an idiot.-Slimy Sculpin-
LIFE IS A ONE TIME GIFT.
A GOOD DEED IS ALWAYS REWARDED.
We do not have to do great things, only small things with great love.-- Mother Teresa--
God Only Loves Fishermen. (GOLF)
If "pro" is the opposite of "con" what is the opposite of "progress"? Paul Harvey

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WHITE ADMIRAL

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #5 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:41am

"Homo sapiens placed willows "

When my neighbor planted willows on his land in TC he set them back about 6-10 feet from the creeks back and let the willow roots grow to the stream. The willow roots provided protection for the trout and muskrats would borrow a hole into the bank for their home. The willows my neighbor planted never blocked the stream and stood upright through their lifetime.

The willows planted by the Westby Rod and Gun crew were planted within a foot of the creek and most of them leaned over the creek and were a pain to most fisherman that could not cast under them where the big brown trout liked to lay. No matter how the willows were planted there was always many big brown trout because of the food and protection the willows provided to the trout.

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No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot. -- Mark Twain
It's fundamental we begin to study mismanaged rivers and streams, because that's what we have.
Mother Nature always amazes me, but why is man such an idiot.-Slimy Sculpin-
LIFE IS A ONE TIME GIFT.
A GOOD DEED IS ALWAYS REWARDED.
We do not have to do great things, only small things with great love.-- Mother Teresa--
God Only Loves Fishermen. (GOLF)
If "pro" is the opposite of "con" what is the opposite of "progress"? Paul Harvey

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Jizzy Pearl Dragon Fly Offline I need some fuel to run. Posts: 1590 Gender:	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #6 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:10am NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2018 at 11:57pm: Which is why I dislike Brown Trout with such fervor. I wish there were more brown trout.
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Sasquatch

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #7 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:15am

WHITE ADMIRAL wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20am:

"Which is why I dislike Brown Trout with such fervor."

You must only fish brook trout in the tributaries of the Great Lakes in Minnesota and Wisconsin because brook trout are not native to the Mississippi River watershed in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Wink

How do like the salmon and rainbow trout in the Great Lakes?? Roll Eyes

https://brooktrouthatchery.wordpress.com/2011/05/22/brook-trout-distribution-in-...

Not so sure about that statement...

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JGF

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #8 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:20am

Sasquatch wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:15am:

WHITE ADMIRAL wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20am:

"Which is why I dislike Brown Trout with such fervor."

You must only fish brook trout in the tributaries of the Great Lakes in Minnesota and Wisconsin because brook trout are not native to the Mississippi River watershed in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Wink

How do like the salmon and rainbow trout in the Great Lakes?? Roll Eyes

https://brooktrouthatchery.wordpress.com/2011/05/22/brook-trout-distribution-in-...

Not so sure about that statement...

USGS Non-indigenous Aquatic Species working group says they're native as well...

https://nas.er.usgs.gov/viewer/GetStaticMap.aspxcache=true&region=us&width=700&h...

https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=939

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NativeBrookie

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #9 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:52am

WHITE ADMIRAL wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 12:20am:

"Which is why I dislike Brown Trout with such fervor."

You must only fish brook trout in the tributaries of the Great Lakes in Minnesota and Wisconsin because brook trout are not native to the Mississippi River watershed in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Wink

How do like the salmon and rainbow trout in the Great Lakes?? Roll Eyes

You've said that before on here and I'm not sure where you got it, but you're completely wrong. Brook trout are native to the Driftless area and many other streams that are not great lakes tributaries.

And I don't fish steelhead or salmon so I really don't have much of a comment on them.

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« Last Edit: Jun 7^th, 2018 at 7:43pm by NativeBrookie »

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NativeBrookie

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #10 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:53am

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 9:10am:

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2018 at 11:57pm:

Which is why I dislike Brown Trout with such fervor.

I wish there were more brown trout.

Where? Certainly not in brookie streams I hope. I realize they're here to stay, but current brookie strongholds and areas that could be brookie strongholds should receive high priority.

If it's more brown trout you want, a plain ride to Europe is all you need.

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« Last Edit: Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:55am by NativeBrookie »

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Rick C Damsel Fly Offline On Wisconsin! Posts: 561	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #11 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:08pm The Arkansas River through Buena Vista CO is largely a brown trout fishery.... I like that the new regs have sections of some streams where all book trout are immediately released yet some browns can be kept.
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Jizzy Pearl Dragon Fly Offline I need some fuel to run. Posts: 1590 Gender:	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #12 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:43pm NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:53am: Where? Certainly not in brookie streams I hope. In all my favorite WI water that I fish!!! A guy can only take catching so many 7" brook trout all day long!!!
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NativeBrookie

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #13 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:57pm

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:43pm:

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:53am:

Where? Certainly not in brookie streams I hope.

In all my favorite WI water that I fish!!!

A guy can only take catching so many 7" brook trout all day long!!! Cheesy

If all you're catching is 7 inchers you're doing something wrong. Almost every time out the brookies I catch range from 6 to 12 inches and more than a fair share of 12-15 inchers every few trips or so. Hell, even a 17 or 18 incher sometimes. One time a 19 1/2 incher. But I haven't hit the 20 mark yet.

I harvest almost all the browns I catch, especially in brookie water.

Undersized alien browns in brookie streams tend to make good scavenger food in the woods. But you didn't hear that from me. On one memorable trip a nearby mink was very happy with me. The reason? I have no idea. Wink

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tannin

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #14 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 7:29pm

I'd generally prefer the native brook trout. I suspect that they could get bigger if the regs were better, and if they didn't have browns to compete with. I don't mind browns terribly, probably because most of the places I fish don't have them. I really think that the natives should be favored by regs and stream work. I will never like those $%#@ lunker structures on northwoods freestone streams. I could tolerate them if they left some space between them so the fish could drop back to feed on insects, but when they are linked together like a chain, I don't believe they look anything like the northern rivers ever looked. I also very much dislike that the most famous river in the north has regulations that are designed to allow all of the browns and rainbows to spawn at least once, and MOST of the brook trout to do the same. And, then there is the meager support for reviving the coasters. So much is done for natives in the smokies and in the west. Why do they get treated like a poor cousin around here?

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tannin

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #15 - Apr 24^th, 2018 at 7:30pm

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:57pm:

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:43pm:

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:53am:

Where? Certainly not in brookie streams I hope.

In all my favorite WI water that I fish!!!

A guy can only take catching so many 7" brook trout all day long!!! Cheesy

If all you're catching is 7 inchers you're doing something wrong. Almost every time out the brookies I catch range from 6 to 12 inches and more than a fair share of 12-15 inchers every few trips or so. Hell, even a 17 or 18 incher sometimes. One time a 19 1/2 incher. But I haven't hit the 20 mark yet.

I harvest almost all the browns I catch, especially in brookie water.

Undersized alien browns in brookie streams tend to make good scavenger food in the woods. But you didn't hear that from me. On one memorable trip a nearby mink was very happy with me. The reason? I have no idea. Wink

Well, whomever it is that feeds the mink should be careful. If you have the locals overfishing the brookies, and the mink feeders getting rid of the browns, you might be left with not much of either.

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Jizzy Pearl

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #16 - Apr 25^th, 2018 at 6:52am

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:57pm:

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 2:43pm:

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 10:53am:

Where? Certainly not in brookie streams I hope.

In all my favorite WI water that I fish!!!

A guy can only take catching so many 7" brook trout all day long!!! Cheesy

If all you're catching is 7 inchers you're doing something wrong. Almost every time out the brookies I catch range from 6 to 12 inches and more than a fair share of 12-15 inchers every few trips or so. Hell, even a 17 or 18 incher sometimes. One time a 19 1/2 incher. But I haven't hit the 20 mark yet.

Ohhhh...I catch 'em that size also. I'm not saying all that I catch is 7 inchers...But an average day of fishing and an average summer of fishing...the typical brookie is 7-8" long...couple of 10-12" in there every now and then occasionally the 12-16".

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« Last Edit: Apr 25^th, 2018 at 6:54am by Jizzy Pearl »

I LOVE COWS! THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!

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Jizzy Pearl

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #17 - Apr 25^th, 2018 at 6:59am

tannin wrote on Apr 24^th, 2018 at 7:29pm:

I will never like those $%#@ lunker structures on northwoods freestone streams. I could tolerate them if they left some space between them so the fish could drop back to feed on insects, but when they are linked together like a chain, I don't believe they look anything like the northern rivers ever looked.

Amen to that!! Hopefully there is some monster flooding and big ice chunks that float down and tear those things out this spring!! That's usually what happens to them over time anyway.

DNR / TU has really made a lot of unfriendly water with them damn things! Now they've resorted to putting a billion boulders in the streams or making that first step off the bank over your head. Taking a canoe or other floaty device down them is like playing a game of pin ball and wading becomes difficult.

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« Last Edit: Apr 25^th, 2018 at 7:03am by Jizzy Pearl »

I LOVE COWS! THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!

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Grizzly Thug WFFP Moderator Offline The Helpful Union Guys" - THUGS Posts: 3435 Land of Perpetually Offended Gender:	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #18 - Apr 25^th, 2018 at 7:23am Whack a brown save a brookie. I save my brookie fry time for Montana. Limit of 25 Nobody really counts. 2 years ago my brother and I ate over 50 in a week. That is the way to treat invasive species.
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NativeBrookie Damsel Fly Offline Posts: 340 Northern WI Gender:	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #19 - Apr 25^th, 2018 at 7:36am The whacking begins May 5th.
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WHITE ADMIRAL

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Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS
Reply #20 - Apr 27^th, 2018 at 12:23am

Beavers love willows, brook trout big waters are beaver ponds, so willows are great for brook trout. Wink

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No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot. -- Mark Twain
It's fundamental we begin to study mismanaged rivers and streams, because that's what we have.
Mother Nature always amazes me, but why is man such an idiot.-Slimy Sculpin-
LIFE IS A ONE TIME GIFT.
A GOOD DEED IS ALWAYS REWARDED.
We do not have to do great things, only small things with great love.-- Mother Teresa--
God Only Loves Fishermen. (GOLF)
If "pro" is the opposite of "con" what is the opposite of "progress"? Paul Harvey

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Gimp WFFP Moderator Offline Gimpers keep out! Posts: 2147 Northern, WI Gender:	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #21 - Apr 27^th, 2018 at 4:55am Jason, don't buddy. Some windmills are best not jousted.
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NativeBrookie Damsel Fly Offline Posts: 340 Northern WI Gender:	Re: WILLOW TREES SUCK OUT POISON FROM STREAMS Reply #22 - Apr 28^th, 2018 at 9:42pm WHITE ADMIRAL wrote on Apr 27^th, 2018 at 12:23am: Beavers love willows, brook trout big waters are beaver ponds, so willows are great for brook trout. Beaver ponds provide good fishing for a while, but are ultimately detrimental to the fishery in the long run.
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