Wisconsin Fly Fishing Forums - 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings

GerardH

WFFP Moderator

Offline

I am haunted by dead fly
anglers

Posts: 7978
The Land of YaBB

Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #135 - Apr 1^st, 2018 at 6:06pm

Perry wrote on Mar 31^st, 2018 at 11:03am:

GerardH wrote on Mar 30^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

tannin wrote on Mar 29^th, 2018 at 5:55pm:

If most trout (brook or brown?) spawn in late October and November, it's strange that so many of us have seen so many spawning brook trout in September.

Yep, I posted that observation many times years ago.

Yes, and I posted on page 1 of this long thread that I've found spawning browns in September.

Yes you did.

My observations are limited to brook trout around my old stompin' grounds in Rusk Cty....about 5-6 years ago, I posted pics of male brook trout guarding female brookies on spawning gravel the last weekend of September. This is something I've observed many times over the decades while carrying a shotgun along my old trout streams.

NativeBrookie wrote on Mar 31^st, 2018 at 9:39pm:

Larry_Kroger wrote on Mar 31^st, 2018 at 8:44pm:

It's not simply dates on the calendar for trout spawning. Seasonal weather trends, flows, atmospheric tides (influences ground water flow), and lunar phase drive the spawning time periods. It seems peaks happen around the first and second full moon after the fall equinox. Many years I observed full bore spawning activity in Langlade and Lincoln counties in late September. We once assembled crews to capture wild strain brown trout in Oconto and Lincoln counties and could find only spent females on October 5th.

Other years it was mid October when brook trout spawning peaked in Lincoln and Langlade counties.

WI DNR water regulations staff used to use September 15 as a recommended cut-off date for in stream habitat work, culvert and bridge replacement for northern WI based on biologists input. The date was October 10 for in stream work in southern WI.

It was October 10th or 11th last year that I talked to a gentlemen who had kept his limit of brookies on a Marinette County stream. All 3 he kept were clear as day spent females. Its been at least 5 or 6 years in a row I've noticed that spawning has largely been done by the second week in October.

This was an argument that I always used when this topic first came up a dozen years or so ago. First, spawning trout are easy to target. Second, even for C&R, I was against fishing during the spawn because the fish are exhausted and needed to be left alone so they could feed and survive the winter.

I remember one member here telling me that killing a trout in October is no different than killing one in June. I vehemently disagreed -- you can't kill that same trout twice. What you're doing is killing a fish that successfully made it to spawn.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 1^st, 2018 at 8:11pm by GerardH »

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )

IP Logged

JGF

Dragon Fly

Offline

I Love Scaly Rough Fish!

Posts: 1989

Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #136 - Apr 10^th, 2018 at 6:18pm

FYI - results are posted to the WDNR website.

https://dnr.wi.gov/about/wcc/springhearing.html

Almost all questions seem to go "Yes" - including question 31 - the trout fishing question - that got this thread going. (5 questions got voted down).

These questions, are of course, non-binding so we'll see what they do with the responses.

Back to top

IP Logged

Whiskers Yellowbanks WFFP Administrator Offline A Poor, Dumb, Pass Lake Slob Posts: 10191 Merle, WI	Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings Reply #137 - Apr 10^th, 2018 at 7:45pm Well. That sucks. But OTOH most of these couch potatoes who call themselves "sportsmen" now aren't going to get off their keisters to go fishing in the snowbank lined streams on April 1st.
Back to top	“The world, we are told, was made especially for man—a presumption not supported by all the facts...” -John Muir IP Logged

NativeBrookie

Damsel Fly

Offline

Posts: 340
Northern WI
Gender: male

Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #138 - Apr 10^th, 2018 at 8:10pm

Well, the consensus wasn’t exactly as overwhelming as the trout questions from 2015, so it’ll be interesting how they proceed.

I get why people voted yes though. Think about it; the average joe sportsmen showing up sees a question to allow more trout fishing, most are going to like the sound of it.

Oh well...

Back to top

IP Logged

JGF

Dragon Fly

Offline

I Love Scaly Rough Fish!

Posts: 1989

Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #139 - Apr 10^th, 2018 at 8:25pm

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 8:10pm:

Well, the consensus wasn’t exactly as overwhelming as the trout questions from 2015, so it’ll be interesting how they proceed.

I get why people voted yes though. Think about it; the average joe sportsmen showing up sees a question to allow more trout fishing, most are going to like the sound of it.

Oh well...

And I think a lot see it as a chance to "stick it to the elitist C&R folks". I would have been more of a fan of opening up the season a week before the warmwater seasons.

The one vote I really dislike it the year-round bass fishing season where you can fish for them outside of the open ("catch and kill") season. There is plenty of good evidence that taking bass off nests has an effect on the nest and they've seen, at least on some Canadian lakes, shown that it has a population level impact.

Back to top

IP Logged

Chironomid

Dragon Fly

Offline

On Wisconsin!

Posts: 1146

Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #140 - Apr 11^th, 2018 at 7:39am

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 8:10pm:

Well, the consensus wasn’t exactly as overwhelming as the trout questions from 2015, so it’ll be interesting how they proceed.

I get why people voted yes though. Think about it; the average joe sportsmen showing up sees a question to allow more trout fishing, most are going to like the sound of it.

Oh well...

This is just the first part of the process to change a rule pertaining to fishing/hunting/trapping. It has to go through several more hoops and at least one more statewide vote before getting approved.

That said, it needs to be noted here that the process which the Conservation Congress now uses to conduct its meetings completely prevents useful debate on agenda questions. Not too many years ago the agenda questions were read fully, debate ensued and then a vote tally of RAISED hands was taken on each question. Now, people can come to their respective county Cons. Cong. hearing locations, get the agenda AND a ballot sheet in advance, read through the questions and mark their ballots without hearing debate. They then can give their marked ballots to the people running the hearing and leave before the questions are read and debated in front of the full audience. Thus, there is no chance to influence their decisions (quite possibly ones that are not fully informed) via honest debate. This change in procedure was done all in the name of "saving time." To some extent, this is understandable, because the former way of running the Cons. Cong. Spring hearings meant all-too-often that they lasted until 1:00 a.m. the next morning.

Also, even when attendees do remain to partake of the hearing, they likely already have marked most/all of their votes on the ballot they receive. And (here's the kicker) even if they do hear the debates on questions and they would like to change the votes they marked on their ballots, it is well-nigh impossible to do so, because the pencils that are provided to Spring hearing attendees don't have erasers on them.

Added to all of these problems is the fact that only one opinion/side of the proposal is presented in the questionnaire under the proposal title. Without having the pros and cons of a proposal available for review, it is understandable that Spring hearing attendees who do not have a feel for the particular topic/issue will vote in accordance with how the written argument below the topic title is presented. Sad

Chiro

Back to top

IP Logged

NativeBrookie

Damsel Fly

Offline

Posts: 340
Northern WI
Gender: male

Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #141 - Apr 12^th, 2018 at 1:25am

Chironomid wrote on Apr 11^th, 2018 at 7:39am:

NativeBrookie wrote on Apr 10^th, 2018 at 8:10pm:

Well, the consensus wasn’t exactly as overwhelming as the trout questions from 2015, so it’ll be interesting how they proceed.

I get why people voted yes though. Think about it; the average joe sportsmen showing up sees a question to allow more trout fishing, most are going to like the sound of it.

Oh well...

This is just the first part of the process to change a rule pertaining to fishing/hunting/trapping. It has to go through several more hoops and at least one more statewide vote before getting approved.

That said, it needs to be noted here that the process which the Conservation Congress now uses to conduct its meetings completely prevents useful debate on agenda questions. Not too many years ago the agenda questions were read fully, debate ensued and then a vote tally of RAISED hands was taken on each question. Now, people can come to their respective county Cons. Cong. hearing locations, get the agenda AND a ballot sheet in advance, read through the questions and mark their ballots without hearing debate. They then can give their marked ballots to the people running the hearing and leave before the questions are read and debated in front of the full audience. Thus, there is no chance to influence their decisions (quite possibly ones that are not fully informed) via honest debate. This change in procedure was done all in the name of "saving time." To some extent, this is understandable, because the former way of running the Cons. Cong. Spring hearings meant all-too-often that they lasted until 1:00 a.m. the next morning.

Also, even when attendees do remain to partake of the hearing, they likely already have marked most/all of their votes on the ballot they receive. And (here's the kicker) even if they do hear the debates on questions and they would like to change the votes they marked on their ballots, it is well-nigh impossible to do so, because the pencils that are provided to Spring hearing attendees don't have erasers on them.

Added to all of these problems is the fact that only one opinion/side of the proposal is presented in the questionnaire under the proposal title. Without having the pros and cons of a proposal available for review, it is understandable that Spring hearing attendees who do not have a feel for the particular topic/issue will vote in accordance with how the written argument below the topic title is presented. Sad

Chiro

The ballot machines they use now expire this year and there's been talk about some kind of online voting from now on. That oughta be interesting.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 12^th, 2018 at 1:26am by NativeBrookie »

IP Logged

Whiskers Yellowbanks WFFP Administrator Offline A Poor, Dumb, Pass Lake Slob Posts: 10191 Merle, WI	Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings Reply #142 - Apr 14^th, 2018 at 3:31pm Isn't it odd that trout C&R folks are elitists but muskie C&R guys are seen as heroes to many of the same folks. Screw 'em.
Back to top	“The world, we are told, was made especially for man—a presumption not supported by all the facts...” -John Muir IP Logged

NativeBrookie

Damsel Fly

Offline

Posts: 340
Northern WI
Gender: male

Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #143 - Apr 14^th, 2018 at 5:05pm

I found it troubling that the question about exempting tournament bass anglers from special regulations on certain lakes passed so overwhelmingly. Fishing is fishing. You shouldn't get special treatment because your a "tournament angler". Whatever that means.

Still wonder how many of those "supposedly responsibly but not really-released" fish die afterwards.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 14^th, 2018 at 5:07pm by NativeBrookie »

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register