Wisconsin Fly Fishing Forums - 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings

tannin

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #120 - Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 5:17pm

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

tannin wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 1:11pm:

You don't fish the early season?

I fish early season and now the extended season.

I don't target fish on redds if that's what you (or anyone else) were implying.

No, I was talking about walking on the redds.

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Jizzy Pearl

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #121 - Mar 23^rd, 2018 at 6:10am

NativeBrookie wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm:

It was also non-binding which means nothing had to be done and the counties that had reservations about it should have been factored into where the season was extended.

Which gets back to the original point of other areas deciding what’s best for the entire state.

I think you are confused with the whole process The biologists that manage those counties decided it was OK after the votes took place. It wasn't other areas deciding. You may want to take issue with the biologist that manage those areas and find out what their reasoning was for agreeing to the extended seasons.

https://dnr.wi.gov/staffdir/_newsearch/contactsearchext.aspx?exp=fisheries%20bio...

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« Last Edit: Mar 23^rd, 2018 at 9:17am by Jizzy Pearl »

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Jizzy Pearl

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #122 - Mar 23^rd, 2018 at 6:11am

tannin wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 5:17pm:

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 1:24pm:

tannin wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 1:11pm:

You don't fish the early season?

I fish early season and now the extended season.

I don't target fish on redds if that's what you (or anyone else) were implying.

No, I was talking about walking on the redds.

Always possible I suppose.

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NativeBrookie

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #123 - Mar 23^rd, 2018 at 3:30pm

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2018 at 6:10am:

NativeBrookie wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 5:15pm:

It was also non-binding which means nothing had to be done and the counties that had reservations about it should have been factored into where the season was extended.

Which gets back to the original point of other areas deciding what’s best for the entire state.

I think you are confused with the whole process The biologists that manage those counties decided it was OK after the votes took place. It wasn't other areas deciding. You may want to take issue with the biologist that manage those areas and find out what their reasoning was for agreeing to the extended seasons.

[url]https://dnr.wi.gov/staffdir/_newsearch/contactsearchext.aspx?exp=fisheries biologist[/url]

I’m not at all confused. As far as the general public goes, it was other areas deciding. I seem to remember officials stating the season wouldn’t overlap with the spawn. That was incorrect. I’m willing to bet I put in nearly as much time on the water as a lot of them.

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Jizzy Pearl

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #124 - Mar 29^th, 2018 at 10:08am

I don't think you are following me. Even though other areas of the state may have voted for an extended season the biologist in the northern counties of the state were consulted with before it was allowed in those counties. Here is an email exchange I just had with the DNR:

JP:
Hi,

When the extended October trout season was voted on, do you know if the fisheries biologist in the northern counties of the state were consulted with to find out if the extended season would interfere with spawning fish?

DNR:
Hi,

Yes, all fish biologists were consulted and involved in the regulation changes in 2016. Most spawning occurs in late October/early November.

Joanna

Which is why I stated that if you have issue with the extended season you need to take it up with the biologists in those counties.

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« Last Edit: Mar 29^th, 2018 at 10:08am by Jizzy Pearl »

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tannin

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #125 - Mar 29^th, 2018 at 5:55pm

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Mar 29^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

I don't think you are following me. Even though other areas of the state may have voted for an extended season the biologist in the northern counties of the state were consulted with before it was allowed in those counties. Here is an email exchange I just had with the DNR:

JP:
Hi,

When the extended October trout season was voted on, do you know if the fisheries biologist in the northern counties of the state were consulted with to find out if the extended season would interfere with spawning fish?

DNR:
Hi,

Yes, all fish biologists were consulted and involved in the regulation changes in 2016. Most spawning occurs in late October/early November.

Joanna

Which is why I stated that if you have issue with the extended season you need to take it up with the biologists in those counties.

This would constitute "consulted with" - "Mr. Biologist, I'm here to consult with you about fishing northern brook trout streams in October. What do you think about it?"

Answers could be:

1. "I think it's a terrible idea. Too many eggs will be crushed."

2. "I mostly deal with warm water fish. I'm not sure."

3. "It's a social issue, not a biological issue" (Remember when a certain DNR biologist said that about the special regs on the Prairie, leading to no more special regs on the Prairie? (All fishing regulations are social AND biological.)

My point is that it's possible to consult with someone and completely ignore what they say.

If most trout (brook or brown?) spawn in late October and November, it's strange that so many of us have seen so many spawning brook trout in September. Also, I seem to recall, years ago, making the point that eggs mature slowly in cold weather, and eggs from November spawning trout could be there to get walked on in March. That idea was soundly pooh-poohed by people who say that most trout spawn earlier than that. It can't be both ways. Since we don't have many rainbows, I can live with early season no kill. October seems foolish to me, though.

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« Last Edit: Mar 29^th, 2018 at 5:57pm by tannin »

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NativeBrookie

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #126 - Mar 30^th, 2018 at 1:16am

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Mar 29^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

I don't think you are following me. Even though other areas of the state may have voted for an extended season the biologist in the northern counties of the state were consulted with before it was allowed in those counties. Here is an email exchange I just had with the DNR:

JP:
Hi,

When the extended October trout season was voted on, do you know if the fisheries biologist in the northern counties of the state were consulted with to find out if the extended season would interfere with spawning fish?

DNR:
Hi,

Yes, all fish biologists were consulted and involved in the regulation changes in 2016. Most spawning occurs in late October/early November.

Joanna

Which is why I stated that if you have issue with the extended season you need to take it up with the biologists in those counties.

"Most spawning occurs in late October/early November".

Haha what a joke.

They can kiss my rear end on that one.

As I said, I probably put in nearly as much time as a lot of those folks do on the water. Every body of water I checked, over 20 in case you didn't catch it when I stated it previously, had large quantities of fish spawning from late September through mid-October. I checked the same bodies of water in the 3rd and 4th weeks of October and imagine my surprise when there was no sign of fish spawning anywhere. Checked most of them again several times throughout November....you guessed it....nada...zip....zilch.

I don't doubt all the biologists were "consulted". That doesn't mean it should have happened. The public was against it in this area. Overwhelmingly in one specific area. The folks that weren't too lazy to show up and vote didn't want it.

The statement about most trout spawning late October/early Nov. is a crock of horse manure. Whoever told you that flat out lied or is too lazy to put in the time and effort to actually check these water bodies come fall.

The DNR is a complete joke and has been for almost a decade. Every time I bring up a concern with them I get absolutely nowhere. If the biologists they "consulted" with agreed that the season didn't overlap with the spawn and wouldn't bother vulnerable fish, they should be fired because they're doing a terrible job.

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« Last Edit: Mar 30^th, 2018 at 1:31am by NativeBrookie »

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tannin

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #127 - Mar 30^th, 2018 at 8:29am

NativeBrookie wrote on Mar 30^th, 2018 at 1:16am:

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Mar 29^th, 2018 at 10:08am:

I don't think you are following me. Even though other areas of the state may have voted for an extended season the biologist in the northern counties of the state were consulted with before it was allowed in those counties. Here is an email exchange I just had with the DNR:

JP:
Hi,

When the extended October trout season was voted on, do you know if the fisheries biologist in the northern counties of the state were consulted with to find out if the extended season would interfere with spawning fish?

DNR:
Hi,

Yes, all fish biologists were consulted and involved in the regulation changes in 2016. Most spawning occurs in late October/early November.

Joanna

Which is why I stated that if you have issue with the extended season you need to take it up with the biologists in those counties.

"Most spawning occurs in late October/early November".

Haha what a joke.

They can kiss my rear end on that one.

As I said, I probably put in nearly as much time as a lot of those folks do on the water. Every body of water I checked, over 20 in case you didn't catch it when I stated it previously, had large quantities of fish spawning from late September through mid-October. I checked the same bodies of water in the 3rd and 4th weeks of October and imagine my surprise when there was no sign of fish spawning anywhere. Checked most of them again several times throughout November....you guessed it....nada...zip....zilch.

I don't doubt all the biologists were "consulted". That doesn't mean it should have happened. The public was against it in this area. Overwhelmingly in one specific area. The folks that weren't too lazy to show up and vote didn't want it.

The statement about most trout spawning late October/early Nov. is a crock of horse manure. Whoever told you that flat out lied or is too lazy to put in the time and effort to actually check these water bodies come fall.

The DNR is a complete joke and has been for almost a decade. Every time I bring up a concern with them I get absolutely nowhere. If the biologists they "consulted" with agreed that the season didn't overlap with the spawn and wouldn't bother vulnerable fish, they should be fired because they're doing a terrible job.

The DNR is a joke, and they've deliberately been made one by the Walker administration - scientists fired, speaking of global warming prohibited, top leadership replaced with people who have no training in natural resources. There are still some good, dedicated staff there, but they have been silenced. I can't imagine how hard it must be to work there.

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GerardH WFFP Moderator Offline I am haunted by dead fly anglers Posts: 7978 The Land of YaBB	Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings Reply #128 - Mar 30^th, 2018 at 11:22am tannin wrote on Mar 29^th, 2018 at 5:55pm: If most trout (brook or brown?) spawn in late October and November, it's strange that so many of us have seen so many spawning brook trout in September. Yep, I posted that observation many times years ago.
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Jizzy Pearl

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #129 - Mar 31^st, 2018 at 8:23am

Here's my follow up e-mail:

JP:

What if the fisheries biologist didn't agree and indicated that they thought that the extended season would harm spawning fish. Would the extended season remain closed in those counties?

DNR:

Not at this point. We are in the process of writing a trout management plan. We will need to see what comes out of the plan before we consider making largescale regulation changes. We would also need data to show that fishing in October would harm spawning fish.

Joanna

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Perry

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #130 - Mar 31^st, 2018 at 11:03am

GerardH wrote on Mar 30^th, 2018 at 11:22am:

tannin wrote on Mar 29^th, 2018 at 5:55pm:

If most trout (brook or brown?) spawn in late October and November, it's strange that so many of us have seen so many spawning brook trout in September.

Yep, I posted that observation many times years ago.

Yes, and I posted on page 1 of this long thread that I've found spawning browns in September.

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Mar 31^st, 2018 at 8:23am:

Here's my follow up e-mail:

JP:

What if the fisheries biologist didn't agree and indicated that they thought that the extended season would harm spawning fish. Would the extended season remain closed in those counties?

DNR:

Not at this point. We are in the process of writing a trout management plan. We will need to see what comes out of the plan before we consider making largescale regulation changes. We would also need data to show that fishing in October would harm spawning fish.

Joanna

In Northern Wisconsin our fisheries biologist (now retired) told me that his reccommendations for area trout regs were sometimes overruled. His recommendations would have addressed differences between streams or watersheds. They were overruled apparently in favor of "simplification" or statewide patterns.

Also on page 1 of this thread, I encouraged people to provide input to the trout management plan. I have submitted my comments to a member of the task force.

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NativeBrookie

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #131 - Mar 31^st, 2018 at 6:11pm

Bottom line is the DNR claiming the majority of trout spawn in late Oct/early Nov is factually incorrect. They’re either lying in the name of statewide regulation simplification, or they’re not doing their jobs very well and haven’t actually checked much of the water where fish begin spawning in September.

Does anyone know where I can formally submit comments to the committee?

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tannin

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #132 - Mar 31^st, 2018 at 7:04pm

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Mar 31^st, 2018 at 8:23am:

Here's my follow up e-mail:

JP:

What if the fisheries biologist didn't agree and indicated that they thought that the extended season would harm spawning fish. Would the extended season remain closed in those counties?

DNR:

Not at this point. We are in the process of writing a trout management plan. We will need to see what comes out of the plan before we consider making largescale regulation changes. We would also need data to show that fishing in October would harm spawning fish.

Joanna

Reminds me of what I heard years ago when I inquired about the idea of putting restrictive regs on all brookie streams flowing into lake Superior to see if it would give us coasters - "Have to have the scientific data proving it would work, first." Sometimes the scientific data can be gained BY making some common sense changes to the regs and then measuring to see what happens. Wisconsin follows the pack (at a distance) when it comes to northern brook trout regulations.

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Larry_Kroger

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #133 - Mar 31^st, 2018 at 8:44pm

It's not simply dates on the calendar for trout spawning. Seasonal weather trends, flows, atmospheric tides (influences ground water flow), and lunar phase drive the spawning time periods. It seems peaks happen around the first and second full moon after the fall equinox. Many years I observed full bore spawning activity in Langlade and Lincoln counties in late September. We once assembled crews to capture wild strain brown trout in Oconto and Lincoln counties and could find only spent females on October 5th.

Other years it was mid October when brook trout spawning peaked in Lincoln and Langlade counties.

WI DNR water regulations staff used to use September 15 as a recommended cut-off date for in stream habitat work, culvert and bridge replacement for northern WI based on biologists input. The date was October 10 for in stream work in southern WI.

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NativeBrookie

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #134 - Mar 31^st, 2018 at 9:39pm

Larry_Kroger wrote on Mar 31^st, 2018 at 8:44pm:

It's not simply dates on the calendar for trout spawning. Seasonal weather trends, flows, atmospheric tides (influences ground water flow), and lunar phase drive the spawning time periods. It seems peaks happen around the first and second full moon after the fall equinox. Many years I observed full bore spawning activity in Langlade and Lincoln counties in late September. We once assembled crews to capture wild strain brown trout in Oconto and Lincoln counties and could find only spent females on October 5th.

Other years it was mid October when brook trout spawning peaked in Lincoln and Langlade counties.

WI DNR water regulations staff used to use September 15 as a recommended cut-off date for in stream habitat work, culvert and bridge replacement for northern WI based on biologists input. The date was October 10 for in stream work in southern WI.

It was October 10th or 11th last year that I talked to a gentlemen who had kept his limit of brookies on a Marinette County stream. All 3 he kept were clear as day spent females. Its been at least 5 or 6 years in a row I've noticed that spawning has largely been done by the second week in October.

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