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2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings (Read 45126 times)
NativeBrookie
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2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:39am
 
Of great interest to us here is the following question which will be asked of the attending public:

"Do you support the opening of the Wisconsin inland trout regular harvest season statewide on the first Saturday in April with existing bag limits, size limits and gear restrictions?"

Seems like we're getting carried away now.  The last set of changes, specifically the two week extension, has interfered with brook trout spawning, despite the assurances it would not.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  Two years in a row now, brookies on beds October 9th-15th.

Just wondering why we can't be happy with what we have.  What works in Vernon County does not necessarily work in Lincoln, Langlade, Marinette or Forest Counties.  If these proposals and changes continue, the state needs to be segregated and managed differently for trout.  Maybe a north/south of 29 type of thing.
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Jizzy Pearl
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #1 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:10am
 
NativeBrookie wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:39am:
The last set of changes, specifically the two week extension, has interfered with brook trout spawning, despite the assurances it would not.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  Two years in a row now, brookies on beds October 9th-15th.


How has it interfered?  You saw people trampling on the beds or you just witnessed some brook trout spawning.

Any data that exists stating that brook trout populations have decreased since there has been a 2 week extension?

NativeBrookie wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:39am:
If these proposals and changes continue, the state needs to be segregated and managed differently for trout.  Maybe a north/south of 29 type of thing.


It already is segregated.  Generally speaking, all of the streams open for the early season are south of 29 and west of 51/I39. There are only a select few open north of that line and fishing them is usually a fruitless endeavor anyway due to snow, iced up river conditions, or water temps that are too cold and the fish are lethargic.
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NativeBrookie
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #2 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:53am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:10am:
NativeBrookie wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:39am:
The last set of changes, specifically the two week extension, has interfered with brook trout spawning, despite the assurances it would not.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  Two years in a row now, brookies on beds October 9th-15th.


How has it interfered?  You saw people trampling on the beds or you just witnessed some brook trout spawning.

Any data that exists stating that brook trout populations have decreased since there has been a 2 week extension?

NativeBrookie wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:39am:
If these proposals and changes continue, the state needs to be segregated and managed differently for trout.  Maybe a north/south of 29 type of thing.


It already is segregated.  Generally speaking, all of the streams open for the early season are south of 29 and west of 51/I39. There are only a select few open north of that line and fishing them is usually a fruitless endeavor anyway due to snow, iced up river conditions, or water temps that are too cold and the fish are lethargic.

Well, they said trout wouldn’t be spawning before the end of the season, which is incorrect.  And I saw people walking right on through without a care in the world and targeting fish on beds.  Did I confront them?  Of course.  But by then the damage was done. 

There is no earthly reason to have any northern streams open in early April instead of early May.  This question deserves a hard no vote. 

I don’t get why we can’t just be happy with the great fishing we have.  It’s hard to believe the end goal is anything but a year round open season.

And honestly, all of us here are smart enough to leave spawners alone, but for much of the public that is not the case.
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« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 9:08am by NativeBrookie »  
 
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #3 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 9:14am
 
NativeBrookie wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:53am:
I don’t get why we can’t just be happy with the great fishing we have.  It’s hard to believe the end goal is anything but a year round open season.


It's the modern business model. If it isn't expanding, it isn't viable. I think that's a load of crap, but that is how things are run these days.
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Perry
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #4 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 9:35am
 
Thanks, NativeBrookie, for the heads up on the spring hearings.

I will be there to vote "no" on that proposal. Interesting that a quick read of the questions indicate a bending toward fishery protection/enhancement for other species, and then an increased catch and kill season for stream trout.

I encourage everyone to give input to the WDNR Inland Trout Management Plan. I know one of the persons chosen to the statewide committee, an I've sent him some comments.

I am not a pure catch and release fisherman. I keep several meals of stream trout each year. I believe there are some trout populations that could benefit from some culling of their numbers. But statewide, not at all.

In a few of the streams I have fished, the recent category "simplification" will harm sensitive populations. A case in point: A small stream with a small population of large wild brook trout was made a category 5 stream (one trout over 15") by the WDNR when anglers were keeping too many to maintain the population. The simplification returned this to a 5 fish per day bag, no minimum size stream. How long before we say goodbye to the bigger brookies?

Back in the day, I caught a number of browns of 18-22 inches off redds in a Western Wi stream in the second half of September. Unless the fish have changed their calendar, the mid-October closing is already putting these fish at risk.
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Jizzy Pearl
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #5 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:32pm
 
NativeBrookie wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:53am:
Well, they said trout wouldn’t be spawning before the end of the season, which is incorrect.  And I saw people walking right on through without a care in the world and targeting fish on beds.  Did I confront them?  Of course.  But by then the damage was done. 


Who is "they" and where was this stated?

Quote:
There is no earthly reason to have any northern streams open in early April instead of early May.  This question deserves a hard no vote. 


I would disagree with this. With the way the weather has been going in recent years, there have been plenty of great fishing days on the northern streams in April.  Ever fish Hendricksons in April?  It's fantastic!!!

Quote:
I don’t get why we can’t just be happy with the great fishing we have.  It’s hard to believe the end goal is anything but a year round open season.


I'm happy.  But if the season is going to be extended I'm not going to get my undies in a bundle.

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« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:34pm by Jizzy Pearl »  

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #6 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:52pm
 
NativeBrookie wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:39am:
Of great interest to us here is the following question which will be asked of the attending public:

"Do you support the opening of the Wisconsin inland trout regular harvest season statewide on the first Saturday in April with existing bag limits, size limits and gear restrictions?"

Seems like we're getting carried away now.  The last set of changes, specifically the two week extension, has interfered with brook trout spawning, despite the assurances it would not.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  Two years in a row now, brookies on beds October 9th-15th.

Just wondering why we can't be happy with what we have.  What works in Vernon County does not necessarily work in Lincoln, Langlade, Marinette or Forest Counties.  If these proposals and changes continue, the state needs to be segregated and managed differently for trout.  Maybe a north/south of 29 type of thing.  



I agree with everything you say.  I have seen brookies spawning in September in a part of the U.P. that is south of much of N. Wisconsin.  Many people said that the extended fall season wouldn't take place during spawning.  They were wrong.
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #7 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:56pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:32pm:
[quote author=6946534E5142655548484C4E42270 link=1519288790/2#2 date=1519311230]

I would disagree with this. With the way the weather has been going in recent years, there have been plenty of great fishing days on the northern streams in April.  Ever fish Hendricksons in April?  It's fantastic!!!



Wait, a few posts ago, you said that fishing the extended season up north was "a fruitless endeavor."  It can't be both "a fruitless endeavor" and "fantastic".

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« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:56pm by tannin »  
 
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #8 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 1:40pm
 
This is a continuation of the southern WI. fisheries folks' determination to jam their (wrong-headed) ideas down the throats of those of us in the northern/central part of the state.  It began with the revised early trout season in 1997, and it hasn't abated since.  I was a member of the last "Trout Study Advisory Committee" that ended up shoving the 15-day extension of the inland season down our gullets.  These southern folks don't give two hoots in Hades about our northern trout waters.  Everything is about THEM!    Smiley

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #9 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:08pm
 
tannin wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:56pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:32pm:
[quote author=6946534E5142655548484C4E42270 link=1519288790/2#2 date=1519311230]

I would disagree with this. With the way the weather has been going in recent years, there have been plenty of great fishing days on the northern streams in April.  Ever fish Hendricksons in April?  It's fantastic!!!



Wait, a few posts ago, you said that fishing the extended season up north was "a fruitless endeavor."  It can't be both "a fruitless endeavor" and "fantastic".



You are correct. What I was thinking when I wrote that statement is the month of March.   April however can be good some years and crappy other years.
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« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:08pm by Jizzy Pearl »  

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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #10 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:37pm
 
After two years of trying to fish the last week of October in Langlade, Oconto and Marinette Counties and finding nothing but brook trout occupying their redds in both streams and spring ponds, I’ve pretty much decided to observe Sep. 30th as the end of my season, at least up there. Guess I’ll just have to head to the Driftless in search of fish that are not yet doing their yearly ritual.  Probably won’t even do that though.  I just think that giving these fish their space come fall is paramount to the future of our natives.
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #11 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:43pm
 
Jizzy, I recall “they” as being the DNR.  Biologists I would assume, don’t remember exactly but it was most certainly said.  In fact, the original plan was all of October but they compomised with landowning bowhunters, residing largely in the Driftless.

I, for one, am tired of the Driftless region getting special treatment and tired of the northern native brookie country being largely ignored in the grand trout plan.  I know the vote is non binding of course, but let’s turn out in numbers and not give them anything new to consider. 

Honestly, I think it’s high time we push to cut the state in half trout-wise, because clearly what’s in many of our and our fish and waters best interests is not regarded very highly.
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« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:46pm by NativeBrookie »  
 
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #12 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:37pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:08pm:
tannin wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:56pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 12:32pm:
[quote author=6946534E5142655548484C4E42270 link=1519288790/2#2 date=1519311230]

I would disagree with this. With the way the weather has been going in recent years, there have been plenty of great fishing days on the northern streams in April.  Ever fish Hendricksons in April?  It's fantastic!!!



Wait, a few posts ago, you said that fishing the extended season up north was "a fruitless endeavor."  It can't be both "a fruitless endeavor" and "fantastic".



You are correct. What I was thinking when I wrote that statement is the month of March.   April however can be good some years and crappy other years.  


Fair enough.  Makes sense.
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #13 - Feb 22nd, 2018 at 8:50pm
 
NativeBrookie wrote on Feb 22nd, 2018 at 2:43pm:
Jizzy, I recall “they” as being the DNR.  Biologists I would assume, don’t remember exactly but it was most certainly said.  In fact, the original plan was all of October but they compomised with landowning bowhunters, residing largely in the Driftless.

I, for one, am tired of the Driftless region getting special treatment and tired of the northern native brookie country being largely ignored in the grand trout plan.  I know the vote is non binding of course, but let’s turn out in numbers and not give them anything new to consider. 

Honestly, I think it’s high time we push to cut the state in half trout-wise, because clearly what’s in many of our and our fish and waters best interests is not regarded very highly.


I tend to agree.  I'm glad that so many great things were done for the driftless, but it's worth remembering that a lot of that is a fishery of non-native species.  It seems to be in good shape.  I wish more energy would be spent on the north.  I remember hearing about coaster brook trout when I was in my twenties, and thinking "maybe they'll be back when I'm in my thirties."  I'm 57 now.  Still no coasters.  A lot of hard work was done on Whittlesey Creek, but not much else was done.  On the bois Brule, brookies are still treated like the poor cousin.  Years ago, fairly soon after the upper river regulations were set, I met a member of the Brule River Sportsmen's Club who told me that the (then) new regs on that river were designed to allow all browns and rainbows, and a majority of the brookies to spawn at least once.  I understand that some people assume the Brule was never as great of a coaster river as some of the small streams around Washburn, because the lake is less rocky there.  On the other hand, most people admit that the Brule had coasters, and the upper river has lots of spawning habitat.  When the Feds turned down the request to list the coasters of the S/T river in Michigan as endangered, it was because there isn't enough evidence that they are genetically different from resident trout.  There is a theory, with some science behind it (salters in E. Canada) that brookies leave the stream when a "critical mass" is created - i.e. when there are enough trout that they become crowded.  There is also evidence that they usually don't leave until they are about 12" long.  It makes me really upset that people can (and do) eat 8" and 10" brookies from lake superior tribs.  I've heard people say that, before the regs can be restricted, it needs to be proven that will help.  The irony is that, restricting the regs is the way to prove it.  Michigan is finally trying it.  Minnesota has been working at it.  Ontario has done a lot.  Wisconsin has done nearly nothing. 

Also, why don't we have some regulations on inland northern streams that might help grow big brookies?  Slot limits might work.

It's very frustrating.

p.s. This is not meant to be a bash on the DNR staff.  They work very hard, under what are now almost impossible circumstances.
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Re: 2018 Conservation Congress spring hearings
Reply #14 - Feb 23rd, 2018 at 7:31am
 
I'm just a angler who has close ties to SW WI all my life.

The last time, (last summer) I asked native anglers who grew up on the Brule and still lived there about coasters I was told.

"It probably has more to do with lake habitat that is no longer accessible for the brookies. They head out in to the lake and have to compete with steelhead salmon and browns.

Historically this didn't happen.

Dunno.
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