Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Wisconsin Fly Fishing Forum
 
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Brook Trout Reserves Program (Read 600 times)
Jizzy Pearl
Dragon Fly
******
Offline


I need some fuel to run.

Posts: 1569
Gender: male
Brook Trout Reserves Program
Dec 3rd, 2024 at 2:29pm
 
The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources (DNR) today announced the implementation of the Brook Trout Reserves program, a new initiative to protect Wisconsin’s native brook trout populations from changing environmental conditions.

Cold water streams provide the ideal habitat for native brook trout. Wisconsin has an estimated 22,000 miles of cold water stream habitat suitable for brook trout to call home. However, with warming stream temperatures, it’s projected that in 30 years, two out of every three miles of this habitat will become too warm to support brook trout.


https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/newsroom/release/101061
Back to top
 

I LOVE COWS!  THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!
 
IP Logged
 
Further North
Dragon Fly
******
Offline



Posts: 9149
NW WI
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #1 - Dec 4th, 2024 at 7:40pm
 
Thanks!
Back to top
 

..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((°<

Bass inhale. Trout Sip.  The musky bites.
                                                     -Tom Hazelton
 
IP Logged
 
Whiskers Yellowbanks
WFFP Administrator
*****
Offline


A Poor, Dumb, Pass Lake
Slob

Posts: 10176
Merle, WI
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #2 - Dec 5th, 2024 at 2:53pm
 
Cool, beans.
Back to top
 

“The world, we are told, was made especially for man—a presumption not supported by all the facts...”
-John Muir
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Jizzy Pearl
Dragon Fly
******
Offline


I need some fuel to run.

Posts: 1569
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #3 - Dec 5th, 2024 at 7:31pm
 
Whiskers Yellowbanks wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 2:53pm:
Cool, beans.


Maybe.

If the climate continues to warm, not much the DNR is going to be able to do about it. Kinda like trying to turn around the Titanic with a canoe paddle.
Back to top
 

I LOVE COWS!  THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!
 
IP Logged
 
WiBugMan
Stone Fly
****
Offline



Posts: 221
Wiosconsin
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #4 - Dec 22nd, 2024 at 7:30am
 
Quote:
Wisconsin has an estimated 22,000 miles of cold water stream habitat suitable for brook trout to call home.


It is hard for me to believe that we have 22,000 miles of streams suitable for brook trout as of 2024.  Even in the far north most of the brook trout waters are in the Class 1 streams. The brook trout may migrate into the Class 2 streams when the water temperatures are lower then they return to the Class 1 feeder creeks.

From... https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/Fishing/trout/index

Quote:
Wisconsin boasts over 13,000 miles of trout streams with over 5,000 classified as high-quality, class I trout streams.


Back to top
« Last Edit: Dec 23rd, 2024 at 5:36am by WiBugMan »  
 
IP Logged
 
GerardH
WFFP Moderator
*****
Offline


I am haunted by dead fly
anglers

Posts: 7963
The Land of YaBB
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #5 - Dec 22nd, 2024 at 3:19pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 7:31pm:
Whiskers Yellowbanks wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 2:53pm:
Cool, beans.


Maybe.

If the climate continues to warm, not much the DNR is going to be able to do about it. Kinda like trying to turn around the Titanic with a canoe paddle.


Actually, there is something the DNR can do about it -- control brown trout expansion in spring creeks.  Spring creeks will continue to provide suitable thermal conditions for brook trout well beyond after most of the northern freestoners become chub water, but browns are the limiting x-factor.
Back to top
 

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )
WWW http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=14051797  
IP Logged
 
WiBugMan
Stone Fly
****
Offline



Posts: 221
Wiosconsin
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #6 - Dec 23rd, 2024 at 5:43am
 
GerardH wrote on Dec 22nd, 2024 at 3:19pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 7:31pm:
Whiskers Yellowbanks wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 2:53pm:
Cool, beans.


Maybe.

If the climate continues to warm, not much the DNR is going to be able to do about it. Kinda like trying to turn around the Titanic with a canoe paddle.


Actually, there is something the DNR can do about it -- control brown trout expansion in spring creeks.  Spring creeks will continue to provide suitable thermal conditions for brook trout well beyond after most of the northern freestoners become chub water, but browns are the limiting x-factor.  


On a gorgeous spring pond hidden in the national forest brook and brown trout are now under siege by northern pike. It is not always brown vs brook trout. It is believed this happened due to the 500 year floods we had back in 2018.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jizzy Pearl
Dragon Fly
******
Offline


I need some fuel to run.

Posts: 1569
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #7 - Dec 23rd, 2024 at 7:48am
 
GerardH wrote on Dec 22nd, 2024 at 3:19pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 7:31pm:
Whiskers Yellowbanks wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 2:53pm:
Cool, beans.


Maybe.

If the climate continues to warm, not much the DNR is going to be able to do about it. Kinda like trying to turn around the Titanic with a canoe paddle.


Actually, there is something the DNR can do about it -- control brown trout expansion in spring creeks.  Spring creeks will continue to provide suitable thermal conditions for brook trout well beyond after most of the northern freestoners become chub water, but browns are the limiting x-factor.  


My comment was addressing the "warmer water" part of the article.  Not much the DNR is going to be able to do about it.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Dec 23rd, 2024 at 7:48am by Jizzy Pearl »  

I LOVE COWS!  THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!
 
IP Logged
 
GerardH
WFFP Moderator
*****
Offline


I am haunted by dead fly
anglers

Posts: 7963
The Land of YaBB
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #8 - Dec 23rd, 2024 at 11:30am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Dec 23rd, 2024 at 7:48am:
GerardH wrote on Dec 22nd, 2024 at 3:19pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 7:31pm:
Whiskers Yellowbanks wrote on Dec 5th, 2024 at 2:53pm:
Cool, beans.


Maybe.

If the climate continues to warm, not much the DNR is going to be able to do about it. Kinda like trying to turn around the Titanic with a canoe paddle.


Actually, there is something the DNR can do about it -- control brown trout expansion in spring creeks.  Spring creeks will continue to provide suitable thermal conditions for brook trout well beyond after most of the northern freestoners become chub water, but browns are the limiting x-factor.  


My comment was addressing the "warmer water" part of the article.  Not much the DNR is going to be able to do about it.


You didn't specify warmer water in your reply to George and the article is about the DNR creating brook trout sanctuaries to help preserve stock with the challenges of climate change.  From the article you linked:

To help combat this problem, DNR fisheries biologists have used survey and environmental data to identify cold water streams in 205 subwatersheds that are the most likely to persist in the face of climate change.

The point is the DNR's hands aren't completely tied regarding creating brook trout sanctuaries, but they need to control brown trout where there is persisting suitable conditions for brook trout (i.e., spring creeks). 

WiBugMan wrote on Dec 23rd, 2024 at 5:43am:
On a gorgeous spring pond hidden in the national forest brook and brown trout are now under siege by northern pike. It is not always brown vs brook trout. It is believed this happened due to the 500 year floods we had back in 2018.





...and illegal stocking of bass wreak havoc with brook trout in spring ponds.  But the overall limiting factor -- especially in spring creeks -- are brown trout that compete directly with brook trout for habitat, food, and spawning gravel where conditions are conducive for both species.
Back to top
 

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )
WWW http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=14051797  
IP Logged
 
WiBugMan
Stone Fly
****
Offline



Posts: 221
Wiosconsin
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #9 - Dec 24th, 2024 at 6:22pm
 
The concern i have with some of the DNR data is they often do their sampling in the same areas year after year at the same time period. Trout may have moved to other areas of a stream based on changing conditions. Thus, the DNR sampling results may not be a true picture of the existing trout populations.

Back to top
« Last Edit: Dec 24th, 2024 at 6:25pm by WiBugMan »  
 
IP Logged
 
Jizzy Pearl
Dragon Fly
******
Offline


I need some fuel to run.

Posts: 1569
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #10 - Dec 28th, 2024 at 11:53am
 
WiBugMan wrote on Dec 24th, 2024 at 6:22pm:
The concern i have with some of the DNR data is they often do their sampling in the same areas year after year at the same time period. Trout may have moved to other areas of a stream based on changing conditions. Thus, the DNR sampling results may not be a true picture of the existing trout populations.



Agreed.  DNR does the same thing with their grouse counts.  I've found them to be unreliable.

Many times they published "low numbers" for my county and I found the exact opposite when I would go out.
Back to top
 

I LOVE COWS!  THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!
 
IP Logged
 
GerardH
WFFP Moderator
*****
Offline


I am haunted by dead fly
anglers

Posts: 7963
The Land of YaBB
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #11 - Dec 28th, 2024 at 6:31pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 11:53am:
Agreed.  DNR does the same thing with their grouse counts.  I've found them to be unreliable.



The DNR doesn't do "grouse counts", they do drumming counts.  At best, they're an indicator of winter survival of breeding males, it's the brood survival that determine grouse numbers in the fall.  As a result, drumming counts can show historic population trends but as you said, are poor predictors of the upcoming season.  I get much better intel from bear hunters who are baiting and timber cruisers who are in the woods all summer and running into broods.
Back to top
 

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )
WWW http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=14051797  
IP Logged
 
Larry_Kroger
Stone Fly
****
Offline


Excuse me sir, is this
the Delta House?

Posts: 247
West Central WI
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #12 - Dec 28th, 2024 at 7:20pm
 
Has that gorgeous spring pond that N pike have moved into had any management action? Pike are relatively easy to capture with fyke nets during spring spawning. Gill netting with size selective mesh can also be useful and should only capture adult N pike.

One factor in the brook trout future is the gene pool turns over in 3-4 years and just maybe natural selection will favor more temperature tolerant trout. Might just be wishful hoping.

Concerning long term trout population surveys, the Electro fishing gear works best in base flow conditions, high flows make for low water conductivity, until about June 15 young of the year trout are difficult to catch until they are more than 2”, the stream has to be wadeable for the crew. Another factor is air and water temperatures. If the fish are already stressed it’s not wise to be handling them.
The long term stations include some of the best natural habitat, some temperature refuge areas, some hyper habitat enhancement areas and some left alone control stretches.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
WiBugMan
Stone Fly
****
Offline



Posts: 221
Wiosconsin
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #13 - Dec 29th, 2024 at 7:09am
 
Larry_Kroger wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 7:20pm:
Has that gorgeous spring pond that N pike have moved into had any management action? Pike are relatively easy to capture with fyke nets during spring spawning. Gill netting with size selective mesh can also be useful and should only capture adult N pike.

One factor in the brook trout future is the gene pool turns over in 3-4 years and just maybe natural selection will favor more temperature tolerant trout. Might just be wishful hoping.

Concerning long term trout population surveys, the Electro fishing gear works best in base flow conditions, high flows make for low water conductivity, until about June 15 young of the year trout are difficult to catch until they are more than 2”, the stream has to be wadeable for the crew. Another factor is air and water temperatures. If the fish are already stressed it’s not wise to be handling them.
The long term stations include some of the best natural habitat, some temperature refuge areas, some hyper habitat enhancement areas and some left alone control stretches.


I am in discussion with the fishery biologists for both the CNNF and WDNR about the northern pike in the spring pond. The CNNF is going to do some sampling next year.  Their comment to me is it is tough to get rid of the pike.

The WDNR in my area are starting to do multiple areas sampling on a 6 year rotation. With help from our TU chapter we are going to try pit-tagging young trout to help understand trout movement throughout the watershed. It is a program myself and the WDNR fishery biologist decided to try.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jizzy Pearl
Dragon Fly
******
Offline


I need some fuel to run.

Posts: 1569
Gender: male
Re: Brook Trout Reserves Program
Reply #14 - Dec 29th, 2024 at 10:28am
 
GerardH wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 6:31pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Dec 28th, 2024 at 11:53am:
Agreed.  DNR does the same thing with their grouse counts.  I've found them to be unreliable.



The DNR doesn't do "grouse counts", they do drumming counts.


Yes.  I know that.  Not gonna split hairs over calling it grouse counts or drumming counts.

Quote:
  At best, they're an indicator of winter survival of breeding males, it's the brood survival that determine grouse numbers in the fall.  As a result, drumming counts can show historic population trends but as you said, are poor predictors of the upcoming season.  I get much better intel from bear hunters who are baiting and timber cruisers who are in the woods all summer and running into broods.


I remember reading somewhere that they go back to the same area every year.  Well if Area A got hunted a lot and birds were killed off and Area B saw no hunters.  I don't think you get an accurate prediction.

So many times I read over the years that that numbers were low in my county...I never saw that to be the case.  Matter of fact, most of the time there were a ton of birds.
Back to top
 

I LOVE COWS!  THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print