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Montana Troubles (Read 1277 times)
Whiskers Yellowbanks
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Montana Troubles
Sep 25th, 2023 at 2:28pm
 
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Jizzy Pearl
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #1 - Sep 25th, 2023 at 3:22pm
 
I've been following this issue for a while.  Irrigation is 90%+ of the problem there, but MFWP can't do anything about it because of first in time, first in right water rights.

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« Last Edit: Sep 25th, 2023 at 3:23pm by Jizzy Pearl »  

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WiBugMan
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #2 - Sep 25th, 2023 at 5:49pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Sep 25th, 2023 at 3:22pm:
I've been following this issue for a while.  Irrigation is 90%+ of the problem there, but MFWP can't do anything about it because of first in time, first in right water rights.


+1

This is important too...



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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2023 at 9:45am
 
The Wise River, which comes into the Big Hole at Wise River, MT, is ridiculous.  It comes in as a trickle, because it has been de-watered by agriculture.  Drive upstream for 20 minutes and its got a ton of water, on a level of magnitudes more then where it dumps in.  Western water law often leads to absurd results.
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #4 - Sep 26th, 2023 at 11:27am
 
Funny thing is a bunch of money and resources are going to be wasted to do a "study" on the issue.

Fish Study

Turn of the irrigation.  Problem solved.
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« Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2023 at 11:41am by Jizzy Pearl »  

I LOVE COWS!  THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!
 
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #5 - Sep 26th, 2023 at 12:00pm
 
I 100% agree that they need to pass laws to maintain flow rates.

I also think more needs to be done to address chemicals that are entering the stream.
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #6 - Sep 26th, 2023 at 12:05pm
 
It's my understanding that the water rights take precedence.  So I'm not sure any laws can be passed to correct the issue.

Water rights were etched out early in the state’s history, and they still reign. The Big Hole is now a closed basin, meaning there are no new water rights to distribute, which makes sense. Ranchers have more rights than water flows from the mountains anyway. Come hell or low water, an operation with senior water rights could run the upper river dry.

Big Hole River
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #7 - Sep 26th, 2023 at 12:07pm
 
This is what concerns me the most: 

***

“I have already been alerted to the presence of fish and fungus by local fishing guides, a concerning thing to see given that it’s only June with plenty of water and cool weather,” said Brian Wheeler, the executive director of The Big Hole River Foundation.

“There’s something else going on here besides flow,” said Jim Olsen in recent Zoom call, Big Hole fisheries biologist for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

There could be a whole host of factors affecting trout numbers besides high water temperatures and low flow, including rare diseases, fungus outbreaks, parasites, algal blooms, fire retardants, or possibly a condition they haven’t discovered and don’t have the tools to identify because it is so novel.

***

Flow is undoubtedly a part of it, but it also seems like something more is going on as well.  I hope that they put their finger on it quickly, and address it. 
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #8 - Sep 26th, 2023 at 6:38pm
 
Back in the early 1980s I caught my first grayling on the Big Hole.

We had pods of rainbows rising around many river bends too.
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #9 - Sep 26th, 2023 at 9:25pm
 
Then came the lust for a third crop of hay. Fly the Big Hole Valley in the hot, often dry days of August and an Incan like series of sprinklers and irrigation canals bleed the Big Hole daily, siphoning water levels so low that there is no longer enough oxygen to support trout. The state’s answer for this is to stop angling to reduce stress on the fish, as if the way to cure the disease is to treat the symptom, not the cause.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisdorsey/2020/09/10/the-decline-of-montanas-rive...
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #10 - Sep 27th, 2023 at 9:57am
 
Water law is not my specialty, at all, and I won't pretend that I'm an authority on this.


With that said, it is my understanding that the state does have the right to control flows and limit the amount of water useage from closed basins (of which the Big Hole is one). 

See https://dnrc.mt.gov/Water-Resources/Water-Rights/

"Montana has authority to control or close river basins and groundwater aquifers to certain types of water appropriations because of water availability problems, water contamination problems, and a concern for protecting existing water rights."

I'm not sure how that works, but it seems like it is a political issue (much like how the Wisconsin DNR's actions are swayed by who is the Governor's office). 

The Montana Governor also seems to have great power when it comes to maintaining flow rates.  For instance, in 1994 the Montana Governor's office issued a consent decree calling for a drought management plan with flow rate triggers at four bridges on the Ruby River.

See https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/montana-outdoors/2022/bigholedrou
ght.pdf

So, it does appear that there are fixes available, if there is a political will to employ them. 


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"The only way they can take away from all of us what weve got here is if we quit.

So, I’m standing here telling you that I’m not gonna quit, and they’re not gonna’ take this away."
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Jizzy Pearl
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Re: Montana Troubles
Reply #11 - Sep 27th, 2023 at 10:32am
 
Interesting.  Thanks.
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I LOVE COWS!  THEY PACK DOWN THE STREAM BANKS FOR US...THEN WE EAT THEM!!
 
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