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CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters (Read 16107 times)
JGF
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CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Jul 31st, 2020 at 7:45pm
 
https://www.swnews4u.com/local/public-safety/lafarges-wild-rose-dairy-responsibl...

Wild Rose Dairy, LLC is on the headwater of Otter Creek. They've had 2 spills that have resulted in very large fish kills. They killed 1165 fish in 2017 and 667 in 2019 which are undoubtedly the lowest end estimates (these are recovered fishes - many will never be recovered).

Quote:
“Persons wishing to comment on or object to the proposed permit action, the terms of the nutrient management plan, or the application, or to request a public informational hearing may write to the Department of Natural Resources at the permit draftees address. All comments or suggestions received no later than 30 days [from July 30, 2020] after the publication date of this public notice will be considered along with other information on file in making a final decision regarding the permit. Anyone providing comments in response to this public notice will receive a notification of the Department’s final decision when the permit is re-issued.”

“The Department may schedule a public informational hearing if within 30 days of the public date of this notice, a request for a hearing is filed by any person. The Department shall schedule a public informational hearing if a petition requesting a hearing is received from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, or from five or more persons, or if the Department determines there is significant public interest.”

To submit a comment, and/or to request that a public informational hearing be scheduled and held, contact:

Eric Struck

WDNR Senior Wastewater Specialist

3911 Fish Hatchery Road

Fitchburg, WI 53711-5367

608-275-3485

Eric.Struck@wisconsin.gov
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #1 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 8:40am
 
And here I thought biodegradable soap was a problem.  Smiley


In that legal notice, it is stated that “the department has tentatively decided that the above specified WPDES permit should be reissued.”


Public comment won't matter.  The DNR has already decided they will issue the permit.
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2020 at 8:40am by Jizzy Pearl »  

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #2 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 10:45am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Aug 3rd, 2020 at 8:40am:
And here I thought biodegradable soap was a problem.  Smiley


In that legal notice, it is stated that “the department has tentatively decided that the above specified WPDES permit should be reissued.”


Public comment won't matter.  The DNR has already decided they will issue the permit.



I know - but it felt good to write a letter and I'd love to see a public hearing to shame them a bit if nothing else.

I can't begin to tell you how pissed off I am that they've never been fined for their 2 previous fish kills. But agriculture owns the state and it's even worse at the county and township levels.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #3 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 11:55am
 
Apparently CAFO's are exempt from the WI DNR mission statement.

Two manure spills in two years...Yay!!! Let's issue them another permit!!!

What's even worse their current permit has been expired since 2015, The DOJ has taken no enforcement action for the 2017 and 2019 spills and yet the DNR is stating they should be issued another permit.  Who is this bozo named Eric Struck?

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #4 - Aug 3rd, 2020 at 3:47pm
 
Eric Struck is the DNR's wastewater specialist.  https://dnr.wi.gov/staffdir/_newsearch/ContactSearchResultsExt.aspx?cno=39932&cS...

Email sent to Struck.
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2020 at 4:11pm by GerardH »  

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2020 at 9:48am
 
Rhetorical question G.    Roll Eyes

But that would be a good start if he actually will listen. But I highly doubt it. Like I said...sounds like he has already decided he's going to issue it.  The rest of the fluff about public comment blah, blah, blah is nothing more than formality.

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #6 - Aug 5th, 2020 at 9:53am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Aug 5th, 2020 at 9:48am:
Rhetorical question G.    Roll Eyes

But that would be a good start if he actually will listen. But I highly doubt it. Like I said...sounds like he has already decided he's going to issue it.  The rest of the fluff about public comment blah, blah, blah is nothing more than formality.



Tough hop, Jizzy_P -- you asked the question.   Kiss

Struck didn't give much of a response to my email, but more people need to get in contact with him and air their concerns.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #7 - Aug 5th, 2020 at 10:47am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Aug 5th, 2020 at 9:48am:
Rhetorical question G.    Roll Eyes

But that would be a good start if he actually will listen. But I highly doubt it. Like I said...sounds like he has already decided he's going to issue it.  The rest of the fluff about public comment blah, blah, blah is nothing more than formality.




Blame the politicians that allow it, not the foot soldiers that have little to no say in the approval process. They've set it up adding to permits as a rubber stamp. They've also done away with a number of inspector positions and fairly recently shot down attempts to reestablish those positions.

What I thought was particularly dumb was it was fairly clearly stated that their past experiences does not have an effect on this permit's approval process. Why on Earth does that not matter? You run a bad farm that's had 2 spills that resulted in fish kills, that should absolutely matter.

In the end, the letters probably won't matter but it felt kind of good to write one.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2020 at 11:43am
 
JGF wrote on Aug 5th, 2020 at 10:47am:
In the end, the letters probably won't matter but it felt kind of good to write one.


It probably won't, but I figure it better to do something rather than me sitting on my hands and bitch about it.  I would hope if they collect enough public comment against the approval that it may carry some weight. 
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« Last Edit: Aug 5th, 2020 at 1:52pm by GerardH »  

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #9 - Aug 5th, 2020 at 1:59pm
 
JGF wrote on Aug 5th, 2020 at 10:47am:
Blame the politicians that allow it, not the foot soldiers that have little to no say in the approval process. They've set it up adding to permits as a rubber stamp. They've also done away with a number of inspector positions and fairly recently shot down attempts to reestablish those positions.


Yes/No.   A little of both.

State audit finds DNR ignoring own rules on water pollution...

State Audit


The Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources is statutorily responsible for enforcing federal clean water regulations in the state, and as part of that responsibility the agency issues permits that set rules for releasing pollutants into the state's waters.


CAFO Oversight

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« Last Edit: Aug 5th, 2020 at 2:13pm by Jizzy Pearl »  

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #10 - Aug 5th, 2020 at 2:13pm
 

The DNR's staffing levels for CAFO permitting and enforcement has been one policy matter in the deliberations over Wisconsin's 2019-21 state budget. Where the funding for proposed new positions would come from shaped up to be a political sticking point.

The DNR's CAFO oversight program has long been largely subsidized by general state tax revenues. According to the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, staffing for the program cost the state nearly $2.2 million during its 2018-19 fiscal year. CAFOs are required to pay a $345 annual permit fee, but only $95 of is directed toward the DNR's oversight program. The rest goes toward the state's general fund, meaning the fees supported less than 2% of the program's cost during that fiscal year.


That's  a lot of money.  Would be better to abolish factory farms in the whole state.  Saves tax payers money.  Saves our natural resources.  Win-Win.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #11 - Aug 5th, 2020 at 2:19pm
 
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #12 - Aug 24th, 2020 at 12:03pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Aug 5th, 2020 at 2:13pm:
The DNR's staffing levels for CAFO permitting and enforcement has been one policy matter in the deliberations over Wisconsin's 2019-21 state budget. Where the funding for proposed new positions would come from shaped up to be a political sticking point.

The DNR's CAFO oversight program has long been largely subsidized by general state tax revenues. According to the Legislative Fiscal Bureau, staffing for the program cost the state nearly $2.2 million during its 2018-19 fiscal year. CAFOs are required to pay a $345 annual permit fee, but only $95 of is directed toward the DNR's oversight program. The rest goes toward the state's general fund, meaning the fees supported less than 2% of the program's cost during that fiscal year.


That's  a lot of money.  Would be better to abolish factory farms in the whole state.  Saves tax payers money.  Saves our natural resources.  Win-Win.


Jizzy Pearl wrote on Aug 5th, 2020 at 2:19pm:


I'm 100% with you.

A huge hidden cost in the factory farms?  Subsidies.  We pay on the front end, we pay to monitor, and then we pay again when the screw up and dump stuff that has to be cleaned up.
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« Last Edit: Aug 24th, 2020 at 12:04pm by Further North »  

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #13 - Aug 25th, 2020 at 9:22am
 
CRTU is doing their first online (Zoom) membership meeting and the main subject will be CAFO's and TU's position on them. Tomorrow evening (Wednesday, August 26th) at 7PM.

Linn Beck, who lead the writing of the Central Wisconsin TU CAFO paper which has been adopted by other chapters, is our guest. He is also our (Wisconsin's) National Leadership Council representative.

Here's the Nohr Chapter's position paper:

https://www.nohrtu.org/pdffiles/HARRY%20AND%20LAURA%20NOHR%20TROUT%20UNLIMITED%2...

And the CRTU FB page if you want to RSVP to get the link to attend the meeting.

https://www.facebook.com/couleetu/

If you're not a Facebooker, you can shoot me a message and I'll send you the information for the meeting. We're not publicly posting the link to try to prevent Zoom-trolls.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #14 - Sep 1st, 2020 at 7:22am
 
I thought TU response was to partner up with the state and award factory farms Green Tier status
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #15 - Sep 1st, 2020 at 10:38am
 
John K wrote on Sep 1st, 2020 at 7:22am:
I thought TU response was to partner up with the state and award factory farms Green Tier status


Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #16 - Sep 11th, 2020 at 11:15am
 
From Eric Struck: 

STATE OF WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
SECOND PUBLIC NOTICE OF AVAILABILITY OF A NUTRIENT MANAGEMENT PLAN AND
INFORMATIONAL HEARING AND INTENT TO REISSUE A WISCONSIN POLLUTANT DISCHARGE
ELIMINATION SYSTEM (WPDES) PERMIT No.WI-0059072-04-0

Permittee: Wild Rose Dairy LLC, E11310 Buckeye Ridge Road, La Farge, WI, 54639

Facility Where Discharge Occurs: Wild Rose Dairy LLC, E11310 Buckeye Ridge Road La Farge

Receiving Water And Location: Surface water and groundwater within the Bear Creek- Kickapoo River
Watersheds

On July 30, 2020 the Department Public Noticed its intent to reissue WPDES Permit WI-0059072-04-0 to Wild Rose Dairy LLC. A subsequent hearing was requested. This notice includes the information required to register for the virtual hearing. Registration is required for the virtual hearing.

Brief Facility Description : Wild Rose Dairy is an existing Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation (CAFO). Wild
Rose Dairy is owned by Wild Rose Dairy LLC and operated by David Abt and Dustin Harris. It currently has
1,784 animal units. (985 milking and dry cows, 389 heifers and 300 calves). Wild Rose Dairy has a total of 2,043 acres available for land application of manure and process wastewater. Of this acreage, 794 acres are owned and 1,249 acres are rented. Wild Rose Dairy has submitted an application for reissuance of their Wisconsin Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (WPDES) permit. The application is complete, and the facility has been determined to be in substantial compliance. This will be the third permit reissuance for this facility. Wild Rose Dairy has a planned expansion to 2,812 animal units by 2022 (1,540 milking and dry cows, 648 heifers, and 324 calves). With the expansion Wild Rose Dairy plans to construct a new heifer barn, two manure storages, and upgrades to the feed storage area. Plans will be approved by the Department. Wild Rose Dairy has an approved Nutrient Management Plan (NMP) that is written according to WPDES permit and Chapter NR 243 Wis. Adm. Code requirements.
The Department has referred the farm to the Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement related to previous discharge events and failing to timely submit a complete application for permit reissuance.

The farm has since submitted a complete permit application and is currently in substantial compliance and has fulfilled all requirements for permit reissuance. The enforcement action at DOJ is separate from this permitting action. Issuance of a permit to
the farm does not resolve or in any way affect the outstanding enforcement action at the Department of Justice.

The Department has tentatively decided that the above specified WPDES permit should be reissued.

Permit Drafter’s Name, Address, Phone and Email: Eric Struck, DNR, 3911 Fish Hatchery Rd, Fitchburg, WI,
53711-5367, 608-422-1512, Eric.Struck@wisconsin.gov

Informational Hearing Date, Time, and Location:

October 13, 2020, 2 pm, Virtual Hearing using Zoom. If you want to attend the hearing, please fill out the
registration form at the following link:

https://zoom.us/j/92639454769

To call in the day of, after registration, please use the following number and access code:

Meeting ID: 926 3945 4769
Dial by your location: +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago)

Continued
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #17 - Sep 11th, 2020 at 11:24am
 
The Department of Natural Resources, pursuant to Section 283.49, Wisconsin Statutes, has scheduled a public informational hearing for the purpose of giving all interested persons an opportunity to make a statement with respect to the proposed permit action, the terms of the nutrient management plan, and the application for this operation.

The hearing officer will conduct the hearing in an orderly fashion and will use procedures specified in Subchapter II
of ch. NR 203, Wis. Adm. Code, necessary to insure broad public participation in the hearing.

The hearing office will open the hearing and make a concise statement of the scope and purpose of the hearing and shall state what procedures will be use during the course of the hearing. The hearing officer shall explain the method of notification of the final decision to grant or deny the permit and the methods by which the decision may be reviewed in a public adjudicatory hearing.

The hearing officer may place limits on individual oral statements to insure an opportunity for all persons present to make statements in a reasonable period of time and to prevent undue repetition. The hearing officer may also limit the number of representatives making oral statements on behalf of any person or group.
Informational and clarifying questions and oral statements shall be directed through the hearing officer. Crossexamination shall not be allowed.

Persons wishing to comment on or object to the proposed permit action, the terms of the nutrient management plan,or the application, are invited to do so by attending the public hearing or by submitting any comments or objections in writing to the Department of Natural Resources, at the above named permit drafter’s address. All comments or suggestions received from members of the public no later than 7 days following the date of this public hearing will be used, along with other information on file and testimony presented at the hearing, in making a final determination. Anyone providing comments in response to this public notice will receive a notification of the Department’s final decision regarding permit coverage. Where designated as a reviewable surface water discharge permit, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is allowed up to 90 days to submit comments or objections regarding this permit determination.

Information on file for this permit action, including the draft permit and fact sheet (if required), the operation’s
nutrient management plan and application may be inspected and copied at the permit drafter’s office, Monday through Friday (except holidays), between 9:00 a.m. and 3:30 p.m. Please call the permit drafter for directions to their office location, if necessary. Information on this permit action may also be obtained by calling the permit drafter at (608) 275-3485 or by writing to the Department. Reasonable costs (15 cents per page for copies and 7 cents per page for scanning) will be charged for information in the file other than the public notice and fact sheet. Permit information is also available on the internet at:

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wastewater/PublicNotices.html.

Pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act, reasonable accommodation, including the provision of
informational material in an alternative format, will be made to qualified individuals upon request.

NAME OF PUBLISHING NEWSPAPER: Epitaph-News
ADDRESS OF PUBLISHING NEWSPAPER: 116 E Commercial St. PO Box 295, Viola, WI 54664
Date Notice Issued: September 10, 2020
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #18 - Sep 11th, 2020 at 4:30pm
 
^^^Nothing more than standard procedure because they have to by law.  Business will continue as usual.

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #19 - Sep 11th, 2020 at 5:57pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 4:30pm:
^^^Nothing more than standard procedure because they have to by law.  Business will continue as usual.




Totally but I'm all for getting on the online meeting and shaming them for 2 spills and hoping that it means that the DNR at least fines them for the last 2 spills.

The rules are written for CAFOs to win - they have money, they have the laws written for them...it is how the world works. At least some folks are fighting the good fight, even it is mostly for naught. I'm up for a public shaming for a 2 time spiller.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #20 - Sep 11th, 2020 at 7:48pm
 
JGF wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 5:57pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 4:30pm:
^^^Nothing more than standard procedure because they have to by law.  Business will continue as usual.




Totally but I'm all for getting on the online meeting and shaming them for 2 spills and hoping that it means that the DNR at least fines them for the last 2 spills.

The rules are written for CAFOs to win - they have money, they have the laws written for them...it is how the world works. At least some folks are fighting the good fight, even it is mostly for naught. I'm up for a public shaming for a 2 time spiller. 


^^^^ This.

I can't stand people bitching about things and then sitting on their hands because "you can't fight the system".  Well, it ain't gonna change unless you get off your ass and do something about it.

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #21 - Sep 11th, 2020 at 10:02pm
 
GerardH wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 7:48pm:
JGF wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 5:57pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Sep 11th, 2020 at 4:30pm:
^^^Nothing more than standard procedure because they have to by law.  Business will continue as usual.




Totally but I'm all for getting on the online meeting and shaming them for 2 spills and hoping that it means that the DNR at least fines them for the last 2 spills.

The rules are written for CAFOs to win - they have money, they have the laws written for them...it is how the world works. At least some folks are fighting the good fight, even it is mostly for naught. I'm up for a public shaming for a 2 time spiller. 


^^^^ This.

I can't stand people bitching about things and then sitting on their hands because "you can't fight the system".  Well, it ain't gonna change unless you get off your ass and do something about it.


Absolutely. Just because the laws are written to give CAFOs an advantage and to shut you up doesn’t mean you have to roll over and die. In fact, it’s the exact reason you need to speak up.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #22 - Sep 13th, 2020 at 11:22am
 
Just received a notification from the DNR of the Dachel Hog Farm permit in the Elk Creek (Chippewa Cty) watershed stamped "no public comment" -- 2 million gallons of liquid hog manure annually.  Here's the link to the cached fact sheet: 

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SZdFQLf9oBoJ:https://dnr.w
isconsin.gov/sites/default/files/topic/Wastewater/DachelHogFarm_FS.pdf+&cd=1&hl=
en&ct=clnk&gl=us


You may have to copy & paste the URL since it doesn't want to link up here.
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2020 at 11:26am by GerardH »  

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #23 - Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:34am
 
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #24 - Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:39am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:34am:


...and that's what we need to do -- keep fighting.  This isn't something we can "oh well" it away.
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...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #25 - Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:43am
 
From the article...

Almost 20 members of the public were on the Zoom meeting, but were not provided an opportunity to make public comments prior to the vote being taken.

Huh

Wonder how the virtual meeting will go for Wild Rose? 
Bad thing about the zoom meeting for Wild Rose is that it's 2pm.  Most folks will be working and probably can't attend.
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2020 at 10:48am by Jizzy Pearl »  

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #26 - Sep 18th, 2020 at 9:12am
 
If your every curious about how much we as taxpayers are funding for a given farm. Here is a good place to start looking.

https://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fips=55123&progcode=totalfarm&regionname=Ver...

Poor farmers are barely getting by in Vernon county . From 1995 to 2019 a number of these operations received over a million dollars in taxpayer subsidies.

Wild rose is of interest?



Wild Rose is number 3 on the list with over a $1,000,000 in taxpayer handouts the last 25 years.


I see through the great ones proclamations another 13 Billion dollars was promised to the struggling farmers.

Carry on.

Squatch
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #27 - Oct 14th, 2020 at 9:20am
 
So how did the zoom meeting go yesterday?
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #28 - Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 9:20am:
So how did the zoom meeting go yesterday?



I couldn't make it but a friend attended. He said the first half hour were procedural readings. There was a lot of opposition to plan and it drew what sounded like a pretty good crowd. 

In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #29 - Oct 14th, 2020 at 4:47pm
 
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work. I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now. 


Those above comments should be moved to the Quarantine Humor section  Smiley
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #30 - Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:28am
 
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 9:20am:
So how did the zoom meeting go yesterday?



I couldn't make it but a friend attended. He said the first half hour were procedural readings. There was a lot of opposition to plan and it drew what sounded like a pretty good crowd. 

In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.



I figured as much.  They will get their permit and the fines will probably go unpaid.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #31 - Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:39am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:28am:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 9:20am:
So how did the zoom meeting go yesterday?



I couldn't make it but a friend attended. He said the first half hour were procedural readings. There was a lot of opposition to plan and it drew what sounded like a pretty good crowd. 

In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.



I figured as much.  They will get their permit and the fines will probably go unpaid.


the fines that do get paid are a joke; as such they are a minor cost of doing business
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #32 - Oct 15th, 2020 at 10:04am
 
John K wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:39am:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:28am:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 9:20am:
So how did the zoom meeting go yesterday?



I couldn't make it but a friend attended. He said the first half hour were procedural readings. There was a lot of opposition to plan and it drew what sounded like a pretty good crowd. 

In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.



I figured as much.  They will get their permit and the fines will probably go unpaid.


the fines that do get paid are a joke; as such they are a minor cost of doing business



True but the problem in my mind is that they don't even receive the fines. At least there is a small bit of deterrent there (maybe).
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #33 - Oct 16th, 2020 at 10:34am
 
JGF wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 10:04am:
John K wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:39am:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:28am:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 9:20am:
So how did the zoom meeting go yesterday?



I couldn't make it but a friend attended. He said the first half hour were procedural readings. There was a lot of opposition to plan and it drew what sounded like a pretty good crowd. 

In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.



I figured as much.  They will get their permit and the fines will probably go unpaid.


the fines that do get paid are a joke; as such they are a minor cost of doing business



True but the problem in my mind is that they don't even receive the fines. At least there is a small bit of deterrent there (maybe).


Are there any civil recourse options?  i.e., if TU were to sue?
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #34 - Oct 18th, 2020 at 6:14pm
 
GerardH wrote on Oct 16th, 2020 at 10:34am:
JGF wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 10:04am:
John K wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:39am:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 15th, 2020 at 8:28am:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 9:20am:
So how did the zoom meeting go yesterday?



I couldn't make it but a friend attended. He said the first half hour were procedural readings. There was a lot of opposition to plan and it drew what sounded like a pretty good crowd. 

In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.



I figured as much.  They will get their permit and the fines will probably go unpaid.


the fines that do get paid are a joke; as such they are a minor cost of doing business



True but the problem in my mind is that they don't even receive the fines. At least there is a small bit of deterrent there (maybe).


Are there any civil recourse options?  i.e., if TU were to sue?


TU's past response was to partner with the DNR to issue an offending factory farm special "Green Tier" status...

oh, and to send some unwitting dupe to read a weak kneed "position statement" in a room full of corporate ag interests. Alone.  Angry Angry Angry Angry
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #35 - Oct 19th, 2020 at 8:14am
 
John K wrote on Oct 18th, 2020 at 6:14pm:
TU's past response was to partner with the DNR to issue an offending factory farm special "Green Tier" status...

oh, and to send some unwitting dupe to read a weak kneed "position statement" in a room full of corporate ag interests. Alone.  Angry Angry Angry Angry


Where do I sign up for this group?
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #36 - Oct 19th, 2020 at 4:08pm
 
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.



I decide to contact the DNR about this. This was the reply I received...

Thank you for your engagement in the permit reissuance process for Wild Rose Dairy.  Please understand that our role as DNR employees is to administer and ensure compliance with agricultural standards and prohibitions, as documented in Wisconsin Administrative Code. DNR does not have the authority to deny a Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation (CAFO), regardless of location in the state, if the CAFO meets permitting requirements.  In fact, covering CAFOs under a Wisconsin Pollution Discharge Elimination System (WPDES) permit ensures that farms use proper planning, nutrient management, and structure/system construction to protect Wisconsin waters. Through the permitting process, DNR works to ensure the protection of public health and the environment to the best of its abilities within the framework allowable by law.


When a CAFO permittee submits a complete application and has an approved nutrient management plan, DNR is obligated to reissue a WPDES Permit. Because the permit is administered by Wisconsin DNR, it cannot be “denied” by others.  Towns and counties do have the authority to regulate rural land use through zoning and may independently choose to adopt livestock siting ordinances within their municipal boundary.  DNR does not play a role in the adoption of these ordinances. Within the schedule of the proposed DNR permit are items to ensure compliance with permit conditions.  The schedule typically includes monitoring, inspection, reporting, plan and specification submittals, and construction of new facilities.   DNR uses stepped enforcement to ensure that permit compliance is maintained.   

Related to your concerns with spills, DNR has referred the farm to the State of Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement related to previous discharge events and failing to submit in a timely manner a complete application for permit reissuance. The farm has since submitted a complete permit application and is currently in substantial compliance and has fulfilled all requirements for permit reissuance. The enforcement action at DOJ is separate from this permitting action. Issuance of a permit to the farm does not resolve or in any way affect the outstanding enforcement action at the Department of Justice.

If you have specific concerns about the permit conditions being proposed, I strongly encourage you to submit those concerns as part of the currently open public comment period.  You may submit comments directly to Eric Struck, CAFO Specialist, either by email or mail (eric.struck@wisconsin.gov or 3911 Fish Hatchery Road, Fitchburg, WI  53711).  The comment period closes at the end of the day this coming Friday, October 23, 2020.


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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #37 - Oct 19th, 2020 at 4:48pm
 
Thanks for the follow-up communication on that, Jizzy_P.

In regards to this statement:  "When a CAFO permittee submits a complete application and has an approved nutrient management plan, DNR is obligated to reissue a WPDES Permit. Because the permit is administered by Wisconsin DNR, it cannot be “denied” by others."

Was this always the DNR's policy or was this part of the Walker administration's changes that required the DNR to "must issue" permits as they did for mining?
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #38 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 4:39am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 4:08pm:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.




Related to your concerns with spills, DNR has referred the farm to the State of Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement related to previous discharge events and failing to submit in a timely manner a complete application for permit reissuance. The farm has since submitted a complete permit application and is currently in substantial compliance and has fulfilled all requirements for permit reissuance. The enforcement action at DOJ is separate from this permitting action. Issuance of a permit to the farm does not resolve or in any way affect the outstanding enforcement action at the Department of Justice.




OK, admittedly I can sometimes be dumber than a sack of bricks so am I reading this right? They had a spill in the past, didn't pay the penalty in a timely manner but that's OK cause 1: the enforcement puck got slide on down to the DOJ 2:They aren't spilling at the moment so DNR has to reissue the permit 3: whether they pay the penalty or not it doesn't matter and never will cause it's out of the DNR's hands and up to the DOJ to follow up on that part.

So... pollute... get permit pulled by the DNR until the DNR hands the penalty responsibility over to the DOJ, AT WHICH TIME, reapply for permit that must be issued as long as no polluting is going at that moment. Don't worry, polluting can go on later and it would seem the DOJ doesn't really care what the DNR is sending them. Silly little DNR and their funny rules.

I can't stop laughing.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #39 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 8:19am
 
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 4:39am:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 4:08pm:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.




Related to your concerns with spills, DNR has referred the farm to the State of Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement related to previous discharge events and failing to submit in a timely manner a complete application for permit reissuance. The farm has since submitted a complete permit application and is currently in substantial compliance and has fulfilled all requirements for permit reissuance. The enforcement action at DOJ is separate from this permitting action. Issuance of a permit to the farm does not resolve or in any way affect the outstanding enforcement action at the Department of Justice.




OK, admittedly I can sometimes be dumber than a sack of bricks so am I reading this right? They had a spill in the past, didn't pay the penalty in a timely manner but that's OK cause 1: the enforcement puck got slide on down to the DOJ 2:They aren't spilling at the moment so DNR has to reissue the permit 3: whether they pay the penalty or not it doesn't matter and never will cause it's out of the DNR's hands and up to the DOJ to follow up on that part.

So... pollute... get permit pulled by the DNR until the DNR hands the penalty responsibility over to the DOJ, AT WHICH TIME, reapply for permit that must be issued as long as no polluting is going at that moment. Don't worry, polluting can go on later and it would seem the DOJ doesn't really care what the DNR is sending them. Silly little DNR and their funny rules.

I can't stop laughing.


It's almost like the rules are written for the big farms to win...
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #40 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 8:27am
 
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 4:39am:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 4:08pm:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.




Related to your concerns with spills, DNR has referred the farm to the State of Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement related to previous discharge events and failing to submit in a timely manner a complete application for permit reissuance. The farm has since submitted a complete permit application and is currently in substantial compliance and has fulfilled all requirements for permit reissuance. The enforcement action at DOJ is separate from this permitting action. Issuance of a permit to the farm does not resolve or in any way affect the outstanding enforcement action at the Department of Justice.




OK, admittedly I can sometimes be dumber than a sack of bricks so am I reading this right? They had a spill in the past, didn't pay the penalty in a timely manner but that's OK cause 1: the enforcement puck got slide on down to the DOJ 2:They aren't spilling at the moment so DNR has to reissue the permit 3: whether they pay the penalty or not it doesn't matter and never will cause it's out of the DNR's hands and up to the DOJ to follow up on that part.

So... pollute... get permit pulled by the DNR until the DNR hands the penalty responsibility over to the DOJ, AT WHICH TIME, reapply for permit that must be issued as long as no polluting is going at that moment. Don't worry, polluting can go on later and it would seem the DOJ doesn't really care what the DNR is sending them. Silly little DNR and their funny rules.

I can't stop laughing.


You underestimate the ludicrous of this...two spills with significant fish kills....don't look behind the curtain, nothing to see here folks.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #41 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 8:45am
 
GerardH wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 8:27am:
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 4:39am:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 4:08pm:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.




Related to your concerns with spills, DNR has referred the farm to the State of Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement related to previous discharge events and failing to submit in a timely manner a complete application for permit reissuance. The farm has since submitted a complete permit application and is currently in substantial compliance and has fulfilled all requirements for permit reissuance. The enforcement action at DOJ is separate from this permitting action. Issuance of a permit to the farm does not resolve or in any way affect the outstanding enforcement action at the Department of Justice.




OK, admittedly I can sometimes be dumber than a sack of bricks so am I reading this right? They had a spill in the past, didn't pay the penalty in a timely manner but that's OK cause 1: the enforcement puck got slide on down to the DOJ 2:They aren't spilling at the moment so DNR has to reissue the permit 3: whether they pay the penalty or not it doesn't matter and never will cause it's out of the DNR's hands and up to the DOJ to follow up on that part.

So... pollute... get permit pulled by the DNR until the DNR hands the penalty responsibility over to the DOJ, AT WHICH TIME, reapply for permit that must be issued as long as no polluting is going at that moment. Don't worry, polluting can go on later and it would seem the DOJ doesn't really care what the DNR is sending them. Silly little DNR and their funny rules.

I can't stop laughing.


You underestimate the ludicrous of this...two spills with significant fish kills....don't look behind the curtain, nothing to see here folks.

Nope, not underestimating it at all. My post was thick with sarcasm and the ludicrous nature of this is why I'm still giggling. The world has gone mad. Cheesy
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #42 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 9:46am
 
All this confirms why I think it doesn't pay to invest any time or energy opposing this with the DNR.

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #43 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 10:39am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 9:46am:
All this confirms why I think it doesn't pay to invest any time or energy opposing this with the DNR.


Back in the day the media would get a hold of this, do some digging and then expose this all... over and over again until everyone, even those not directly involved, understood how utterly ridiculous all of this is.

The problem is nowadays the media is only worried about who's shirt is soaked the most with their own tears on the gram and how much of a meanie Ellen is.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #44 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 2:00pm
 
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 10:39am:
The problem is nowadays the media is only worried about who's shirt is soaked the most with their own tears on the gram and how much of a meanie Ellen is.


There are other channels to watch besides E!
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #45 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 6:40pm
 
GerardH wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 2:00pm:
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 10:39am:
The problem is nowadays the media is only worried about who's shirt is soaked the most with their own tears on the gram and how much of a meanie Ellen is.


There are other channels to watch besides E!

To be honest, I don't watch any of them.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #46 - Oct 20th, 2020 at 6:47pm
 
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 6:40pm:
GerardH wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 2:00pm:
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 10:39am:
The problem is nowadays the media is only worried about who's shirt is soaked the most with their own tears on the gram and how much of a meanie Ellen is.


There are other channels to watch besides E!

To be honest, I don't watch any of them.


You were always the smartest one here.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #47 - Oct 24th, 2020 at 1:34pm
 
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 8:45am:
GerardH wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 8:27am:
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 4:39am:
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 19th, 2020 at 4:08pm:
JGF wrote on Oct 14th, 2020 at 2:32pm:
In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.




Related to your concerns with spills, DNR has referred the farm to the State of Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement related to previous discharge events and failing to submit in a timely manner a complete application for permit reissuance. The farm has since submitted a complete permit application and is currently in substantial compliance and has fulfilled all requirements for permit reissuance. The enforcement action at DOJ is separate from this permitting action. Issuance of a permit to the farm does not resolve or in any way affect the outstanding enforcement action at the Department of Justice.




OK, admittedly I can sometimes be dumber than a sack of bricks so am I reading this right? They had a spill in the past, didn't pay the penalty in a timely manner but that's OK cause 1: the enforcement puck got slide on down to the DOJ 2:They aren't spilling at the moment so DNR has to reissue the permit 3: whether they pay the penalty or not it doesn't matter and never will cause it's out of the DNR's hands and up to the DOJ to follow up on that part.

So... pollute... get permit pulled by the DNR until the DNR hands the penalty responsibility over to the DOJ, AT WHICH TIME, reapply for permit that must be issued as long as no polluting is going at that moment. Don't worry, polluting can go on later and it would seem the DOJ doesn't really care what the DNR is sending them. Silly little DNR and their funny rules.

I can't stop laughing.


You underestimate the ludicrous of this...two spills with significant fish kills....don't look behind the curtain, nothing to see here folks.

Nope, not underestimating it at all. My post was thick with sarcasm and the ludicrous nature of this is why I'm still giggling. The world has gone mad. Cheesy


It's been that way for a while.
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..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((°<

Bass inhale. Trout Sip.  The musky bites.
                                                     -Tom Hazelton
 
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #48 - Oct 24th, 2020 at 1:35pm
 
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 6:40pm:
GerardH wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 2:00pm:
Gimp wrote on Oct 20th, 2020 at 10:39am:
The problem is nowadays the media is only worried about who's shirt is soaked the most with their own tears on the gram and how much of a meanie Ellen is.


There are other channels to watch besides E!

To be honest, I don't watch any of them.



Good call...we are going on our 6th year of that.
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..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((°<

Bass inhale. Trout Sip.  The musky bites.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #49 - Apr 26th, 2021 at 6:42pm
 
Well, there is justice in this world....despite what was said in this thread, it pays to make noise about these matters rather than sit on your hands.

MADISON, Wis. (WKBT) — The state of Wisconsin has reached a settlement agreement with Wild Rose Dairy, K&D Manure Handling and Kevin Hintz that would require them to pay $242,000 in a case connected to pollution in Vernon and La Crosse counties....



https://www.news8000.com/wisconsin-reaches-settlement-agreement-with-wild-rose-d...
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« Last Edit: Apr 26th, 2021 at 6:43pm by GerardH »  

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #50 - Apr 26th, 2021 at 10:34pm
 
Yep.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #51 - Apr 27th, 2021 at 10:24am
 
Meh.  Slap on the wrist for those guys.

We'll see this happen again within the next 2 years from this operation.

Permit renewed...expansion approved...

The new five-year permit will expire on June 30, 2025. This is the third permit issued to the dairy, which currently has 1,784 animal units, and plans to expand to 2,812 animal units. With the expansion, Wild Rose Dairy plans to construct a new heifer barn, manure storages, and upgrades to the feed storage area.

https://www.swnews4u.com/local/environment/wild-rose-dairy-permit-renewed-expans...
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #52 - Apr 27th, 2021 at 11:05am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 27th, 2021 at 10:24am:
Meh.  Slap on the wrist for those guys.

We'll see this happen again within the next 2 years from this operation.

Permit renewed...expansion approved...




Quarter mil "slap on the wrist" is still going to leave a mark -- I know what's involved in the dairy industry since I grew up in it and I know people still in it -- profit margins are slim.

They thought this would go unnoticed and they got rung up...repeated offenses should be harsher in the future. 

The state alleged that Hintz told DNR conservation wardens that he knew manure had reached a tributary to Bostwick Creek, and that he did not report the manure spill to DNR because he hoped nothing would come of it. DNR was notified of the fish kill in Bostwick Creek by an anonymous public tip.
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...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #53 - Apr 27th, 2021 at 11:59am
 
Wild Rose only had to pay $57K of that.  Slap on the wrist for them.

It will happen again.  Guaranteed.

What should actually happen is that they should be closed down.
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« Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2021 at 11:59am by Jizzy Pearl »  

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #54 - Apr 27th, 2021 at 1:28pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 27th, 2021 at 11:59am:
Wild Rose only had to pay $57K of that.  Slap on the wrist for them.

It will happen again.  Guaranteed.

What should actually happen is that they should be closed down.


I don't disagree with either of those statements.

But it doesn't take away from the fact that making noise about it helps.
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« Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2021 at 1:29pm by GerardH »  

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )
WWW http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=14051797  
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #55 - Apr 27th, 2021 at 1:45pm
 
I'm not as optimistic since making noise hasn't seemed to help. The operations are just figuring future fines into their operating costs.   Just look back in history.  We are no better off today than we were in 2005. In fact it's gotten worse.



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« Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2021 at 1:45pm by Jizzy Pearl »  

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #56 - Apr 28th, 2021 at 8:20am
 
Here they are.  Make some noise with the contacts listed.

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/CAFO/RecentPermits.html

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #57 - Apr 28th, 2021 at 9:21am
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 28th, 2021 at 8:20am:
Here they are.  Make some noise with the contacts listed.

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/CAFO/RecentPermits.html




Certainly make some noise but with how the laws are written, they really have little ability to not give out permits. Hell, a two time fish killer got a renewal of their permit after a public meeting. The public meeting was essentially a mild shaming of a polluter. Public meetings might get a detail or two changed in a permit but they're not meant to stop CAFOs. As the laws are written, they could not even use past spills that resulted in fish kills as a reason to not give them a permit.

The only ways you can stop CAFOs is to demonstrate that they negatively affect human health (even then - see the groundwater pollution issues across the state) or get the laws governing CAFOs changed.

It is mostly a legislative issue - tilt at all the windmills you want but stopping CAFOs is darn near impossible with the laws written as they are. Change the laws and you're getting somewhere.
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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #58 - Apr 28th, 2021 at 11:30am
 
JGF wrote on Apr 28th, 2021 at 9:21am:
The only ways you can stop CAFOs is to demonstrate that they negatively affect human health 


That part is easy and has already been done.

https://www.sierraclub.org/wisconsin/blog/2017/06/community-members-highlight-fa...


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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #59 - Apr 28th, 2021 at 4:37pm
 
Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 28th, 2021 at 11:30am:
JGF wrote on Apr 28th, 2021 at 9:21am:
The only ways you can stop CAFOs is to demonstrate that they negatively affect human health 


That part is easy and has already been done.

https://www.sierraclub.org/wisconsin/blog/2017/06/community-members-highlight-fa...





Apparently not or in the nearly 4 years since that was published, a CAFO would have been stopped because of it.

Their report concludes with my larger point - want to stop CAFOs? The laws need to change.
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