Wisconsin Fly Fishing Forums - CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters

Gimp

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #45 - Oct 20^th, 2020 at 6:40pm

GerardH wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 2:00pm:

Gimp wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 10:39am:

The problem is nowadays the media is only worried about who's shirt is soaked the most with their own tears on the gram and how much of a meanie Ellen is.

There are other channels to watch besides E!

To be honest, I don't watch any of them.

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GerardH

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #46 - Oct 20^th, 2020 at 6:47pm

Gimp wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 6:40pm:

GerardH wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 2:00pm:

Gimp wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 10:39am:

The problem is nowadays the media is only worried about who's shirt is soaked the most with their own tears on the gram and how much of a meanie Ellen is.

There are other channels to watch besides E!

To be honest, I don't watch any of them.

You were always the smartest one here.

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...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

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Further North

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #47 - Oct 24^th, 2020 at 1:34pm

Gimp wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 8:45am:

GerardH wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 8:27am:

Gimp wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 4:39am:

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Oct 19^th, 2020 at 4:08pm:

JGF wrote on Oct 14^th, 2020 at 2:32pm:

In the end, it is not going to matter - they'll get the permit. It's the way the system is set up to work.

I just hope that they at least get fined for their spills going back 3 years now.

Related to your concerns with spills, DNR has referred the farm to the State of Wisconsin Department of Justice (DOJ) for enforcement related to previous discharge events and failing to submit in a timely manner a complete application for permit reissuance. The farm has since submitted a complete permit application and is currently in substantial compliance and has fulfilled all requirements for permit reissuance. The enforcement action at DOJ is separate from this permitting action. Issuance of a permit to the farm does not resolve or in any way affect the outstanding enforcement action at the Department of Justice.

OK, admittedly I can sometimes be dumber than a sack of bricks so am I reading this right? They had a spill in the past, didn't pay the penalty in a timely manner but that's OK cause 1: the enforcement puck got slide on down to the DOJ 2:They aren't spilling at the moment so DNR has to reissue the permit 3: whether they pay the penalty or not it doesn't matter and never will cause it's out of the DNR's hands and up to the DOJ to follow up on that part.

So... pollute... get permit pulled by the DNR until the DNR hands the penalty responsibility over to the DOJ, AT WHICH TIME, reapply for permit that must be issued as long as no polluting is going at that moment. Don't worry, polluting can go on later and it would seem the DOJ doesn't really care what the DNR is sending them. Silly little DNR and their funny rules.

I can't stop laughing.

You underestimate the ludicrous of this...two spills with significant fish kills....don't look behind the curtain, nothing to see here folks.

Nope, not underestimating it at all. My post was thick with sarcasm and the ludicrous nature of this is why I'm still giggling. The world has gone mad. Cheesy

It's been that way for a while.

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Further North

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #48 - Oct 24^th, 2020 at 1:35pm

Gimp wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 6:40pm:

GerardH wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 2:00pm:

Gimp wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 10:39am:

The problem is nowadays the media is only worried about who's shirt is soaked the most with their own tears on the gram and how much of a meanie Ellen is.

There are other channels to watch besides E!

To be honest, I don't watch any of them.

Good call...we are going on our 6th year of that.

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..¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((°<

Bass inhale. Trout Sip. The musky bites.
-Tom Hazelton

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GerardH

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #49 - Apr 26^th, 2021 at 6:42pm

Well, there is justice in this world....despite what was said in this thread, it pays to make noise about these matters rather than sit on your hands.

MADISON, Wis. (WKBT) — The state of Wisconsin has reached a settlement agreement with Wild Rose Dairy, K&D Manure Handling and Kevin Hintz that would require them to pay $242,000 in a case connected to pollution in Vernon and La Crosse counties....

https://www.news8000.com/wisconsin-reaches-settlement-agreement-with-wild-rose-d...

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« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2021 at 6:43pm by GerardH »

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )

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Whiskers Yellowbanks WFFP Administrator Offline A Poor, Dumb, Pass Lake Slob Posts: 10181 Merle, WI	Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters Reply #50 - Apr 26^th, 2021 at 10:34pm Yep.
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Jizzy Pearl

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #51 - Apr 27^th, 2021 at 10:24am

Meh. Slap on the wrist for those guys.

We'll see this happen again within the next 2 years from this operation.

Permit renewed...expansion approved...

The new five-year permit will expire on June 30, 2025. This is the third permit issued to the dairy, which currently has 1,784 animal units, and plans to expand to 2,812 animal units. With the expansion, Wild Rose Dairy plans to construct a new heifer barn, manure storages, and upgrades to the feed storage area.

https://www.swnews4u.com/local/environment/wild-rose-dairy-permit-renewed-expans...

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« Last Edit: Apr 27^th, 2021 at 10:27am by Jizzy Pearl »

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GerardH

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #52 - Apr 27^th, 2021 at 11:05am

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 27^th, 2021 at 10:24am:

Meh. Slap on the wrist for those guys.

We'll see this happen again within the next 2 years from this operation.

Permit renewed...expansion approved...

Quarter mil "slap on the wrist" is still going to leave a mark -- I know what's involved in the dairy industry since I grew up in it and I know people still in it -- profit margins are slim.

They thought this would go unnoticed and they got rung up...repeated offenses should be harsher in the future.

The state alleged that Hintz told DNR conservation wardens that he knew manure had reached a tributary to Bostwick Creek, and that he did not report the manure spill to DNR because he hoped nothing would come of it. DNR was notified of the fish kill in Bostwick Creek by an anonymous public tip.

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...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )

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Jizzy Pearl Dragon Fly Offline I need some fuel to run. Posts: 1579 Gender:	Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters Reply #53 - Apr 27^th, 2021 at 11:59am Wild Rose only had to pay $57K of that. Slap on the wrist for them. It will happen again. Guaranteed. What should actually happen is that they should be closed down.
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GerardH

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #54 - Apr 27^th, 2021 at 1:28pm

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 27^th, 2021 at 11:59am:

Wild Rose only had to pay $57K of that. Slap on the wrist for them.

It will happen again. Guaranteed.

What should actually happen is that they should be closed down.

I don't disagree with either of those statements.

But it doesn't take away from the fact that making noise about it helps.

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« Last Edit: Apr 27^th, 2021 at 1:29pm by GerardH »

...because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there...

-John Voelker (Robert Traver )

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Jizzy Pearl Dragon Fly Offline I need some fuel to run. Posts: 1579 Gender:	Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters Reply #55 - Apr 27^th, 2021 at 1:45pm I'm not as optimistic since making noise hasn't seemed to help. The operations are just figuring future fines into their operating costs. Just look back in history. We are no better off today than we were in 2005. In fact it's gotten worse.
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Jizzy Pearl Dragon Fly Offline I need some fuel to run. Posts: 1579 Gender:	Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters Reply #56 - Apr 28^th, 2021 at 8:20am Here they are. Make some noise with the contacts listed. https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/CAFO/RecentPermits.html
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JGF

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #57 - Apr 28^th, 2021 at 9:21am

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 28^th, 2021 at 8:20am:

Here they are. Make some noise with the contacts listed.

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/CAFO/RecentPermits.html

Certainly make some noise but with how the laws are written, they really have little ability to not give out permits. Hell, a two time fish killer got a renewal of their permit after a public meeting. The public meeting was essentially a mild shaming of a polluter. Public meetings might get a detail or two changed in a permit but they're not meant to stop CAFOs. As the laws are written, they could not even use past spills that resulted in fish kills as a reason to not give them a permit.

The only ways you can stop CAFOs is to demonstrate that they negatively affect human health (even then - see the groundwater pollution issues across the state) or get the laws governing CAFOs changed.

It is mostly a legislative issue - tilt at all the windmills you want but stopping CAFOs is darn near impossible with the laws written as they are. Change the laws and you're getting somewhere.

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Jizzy Pearl Dragon Fly Offline I need some fuel to run. Posts: 1579 Gender:	Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters Reply #58 - Apr 28^th, 2021 at 11:30am JGF wrote on Apr 28^th, 2021 at 9:21am: The only ways you can stop CAFOs is to demonstrate that they negatively affect human health That part is easy and has already been done. https://www.sierraclub.org/wisconsin/blog/2017/06/community-members-highlight-fa...
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JGF

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Re: CAFO Expansion for perrenial polluters
Reply #59 - Apr 28^th, 2021 at 4:37pm

Jizzy Pearl wrote on Apr 28^th, 2021 at 11:30am:

JGF wrote on Apr 28^th, 2021 at 9:21am:

The only ways you can stop CAFOs is to demonstrate that they negatively affect human health

That part is easy and has already been done.

https://www.sierraclub.org/wisconsin/blog/2017/06/community-members-highlight-fa...

Apparently not or in the nearly 4 years since that was published, a CAFO would have been stopped because of it.

Their report concludes with my larger point - want to stop CAFOs? The laws need to change.

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